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A little contest of golf knowledge
- Thread starter CigarStone
- Start date
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2007
- Messages
- 11,103
Not really even very close yet.
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2007
- Messages
- 11,103
Sorry for the absence, I got busy and completely spaced on this.
I will be back shortly with the winner!
I will be back shortly with the winner!
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2007
- Messages
- 11,103
Grateful1 is the winner! Gary was correct or indirectly correct on virtually all of the answers. (see details below)
Congrats Gary!
The questions:
1. How is a player’s handicap determined?
2. What is meant by the handicap given to each hole on a score card?
3. What is meant by "course rating"?
4. What is meant by the "slope rating" of a course?
5. If your drive is slicing wildly and lands in a water hazard, where do you hit your next shot from and, if you put that next shot 2 feet from the cup and make that putt, what is your score?
6. If your opponent hits his tee shot from in front of the tee markers and you bring it to his attention after he has hit, what happens next? Hint.....the answer not "a fight"
The answers:
1. The best 10 of your last 20 rounds are used in the following way.....the difference between each of 10 scores and the corresponding course rating, where played, is totaled and divided by 10 producing your handicap. Par and "Slope rating" are not used in determining handicap. For example, if you shoot 75 on a course which has a rating of 70.2 you use 4.8 for that round. The best ten of these are added and divided by ten.
2. This is a huge misconception by almost all golfers. The hole by hole handicap does not directly indicate the hole's difficulty, but in some cases it is the same. Hole by hole handicapping is done for equalization purposes between players of differing abilities (to read,,,,"for betting purposes" although the USGA will vehemently deny this). Based on very complicated calculations, or monitoring of hundreds of score cards, the number 1 handicap hole is the hole which produces the biggest difference between scratch golfers and bogey golfers, and the number 18 handicap hole is the hole which produces the least difference between scratch golfers and bogey golfers. The reason this does not "directly" relate to difficulty is because the #1 handicap hole is often a birdie hole for a scratch golfer due to their ability to hit the ball further and hit the required shot, where the bogey golfer can not, thus the vast difference in typical scores on that hole.
3. Course rating is what a scratch golfer (0.0 handicap) should shoot on this course. Once again, this is based on complicated calculations. USGA officials used to walk, and chart, courses and enter information into a program which would spit out the the rating based on things like potential trouble at 260 yards (the average drive yardage for scratch golfers), and potential trouble around greens, proximity of water and OB stakes, etc. This is why course rating is used in determining a players handicap.
4. Slope rating is a numbering system which indicates the difficulty of the course for the bogey golfer. A similar set of pre-determined calculations are used to arrive at this number which are geared toward the ability of bogey golfers. Why this is an arbitrary number remains a mystery. The best answer I ever got from a USGA official was "if we gave it a score related number, such as 95, it would insult and alienate some bogey golfers". The higher the number the harder the course will play for bogey golfers.
5. As pointed out, I was a bit unclear on this one......let's assume because it was slicing wildly that it went into a lateral hazard. Your ball, whether found in the hazard or deemed lost in the hazard, would be dropped within two club lengths of the place it "last" cross the hazard line, not nearer to the hole, with a one stroke penalty so the shot landing 2 feet from the hole is lying 3 and the putt is made for four.
6. You do not have an opponent in stroke play so this applies to match play. You as the opponent have the right to A.....let your opponent play the shot he just hit from in front of the tee marker or B........make him hit it again. There is not further penalty. In stroke play the penalty is two strokes and hit the ball again.
Thanks for playing!
Congrats Gary!
The questions:
1. How is a player’s handicap determined?
2. What is meant by the handicap given to each hole on a score card?
3. What is meant by "course rating"?
4. What is meant by the "slope rating" of a course?
5. If your drive is slicing wildly and lands in a water hazard, where do you hit your next shot from and, if you put that next shot 2 feet from the cup and make that putt, what is your score?
6. If your opponent hits his tee shot from in front of the tee markers and you bring it to his attention after he has hit, what happens next? Hint.....the answer not "a fight"
The answers:
1. The best 10 of your last 20 rounds are used in the following way.....the difference between each of 10 scores and the corresponding course rating, where played, is totaled and divided by 10 producing your handicap. Par and "Slope rating" are not used in determining handicap. For example, if you shoot 75 on a course which has a rating of 70.2 you use 4.8 for that round. The best ten of these are added and divided by ten.
2. This is a huge misconception by almost all golfers. The hole by hole handicap does not directly indicate the hole's difficulty, but in some cases it is the same. Hole by hole handicapping is done for equalization purposes between players of differing abilities (to read,,,,"for betting purposes" although the USGA will vehemently deny this). Based on very complicated calculations, or monitoring of hundreds of score cards, the number 1 handicap hole is the hole which produces the biggest difference between scratch golfers and bogey golfers, and the number 18 handicap hole is the hole which produces the least difference between scratch golfers and bogey golfers. The reason this does not "directly" relate to difficulty is because the #1 handicap hole is often a birdie hole for a scratch golfer due to their ability to hit the ball further and hit the required shot, where the bogey golfer can not, thus the vast difference in typical scores on that hole.
3. Course rating is what a scratch golfer (0.0 handicap) should shoot on this course. Once again, this is based on complicated calculations. USGA officials used to walk, and chart, courses and enter information into a program which would spit out the the rating based on things like potential trouble at 260 yards (the average drive yardage for scratch golfers), and potential trouble around greens, proximity of water and OB stakes, etc. This is why course rating is used in determining a players handicap.
4. Slope rating is a numbering system which indicates the difficulty of the course for the bogey golfer. A similar set of pre-determined calculations are used to arrive at this number which are geared toward the ability of bogey golfers. Why this is an arbitrary number remains a mystery. The best answer I ever got from a USGA official was "if we gave it a score related number, such as 95, it would insult and alienate some bogey golfers". The higher the number the harder the course will play for bogey golfers.
5. As pointed out, I was a bit unclear on this one......let's assume because it was slicing wildly that it went into a lateral hazard. Your ball, whether found in the hazard or deemed lost in the hazard, would be dropped within two club lengths of the place it "last" cross the hazard line, not nearer to the hole, with a one stroke penalty so the shot landing 2 feet from the hole is lying 3 and the putt is made for four.
6. You do not have an opponent in stroke play so this applies to match play. You as the opponent have the right to A.....let your opponent play the shot he just hit from in front of the tee marker or B........make him hit it again. There is not further penalty. In stroke play the penalty is two strokes and hit the ball again.
Thanks for playing!
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2007
- Messages
- 11,103
I almost forgot!
RBBrock, gets honorable mention because his answers made me laugh out loud! Especially this one.
6. Before each shot for the rest of the hole, your opponent must place his forehead on the end of his club's grip with the clubhead on the ground, and spin around the club for fifteen seconds. If a divot results from the spinning, your opponent has to hit on the beer cart girl with any pickup line of your choosing. If he gets her number, you automatically lose the match.
As I explained to RB, although I played competitively for many years, I also played a lot of beer golf......and had I ever heard this one before I would absolutely have used it!
He will also get a few sticks for the entertainment provided!
RBBrock, gets honorable mention because his answers made me laugh out loud! Especially this one.
6. Before each shot for the rest of the hole, your opponent must place his forehead on the end of his club's grip with the clubhead on the ground, and spin around the club for fifteen seconds. If a divot results from the spinning, your opponent has to hit on the beer cart girl with any pickup line of your choosing. If he gets her number, you automatically lose the match.
As I explained to RB, although I played competitively for many years, I also played a lot of beer golf......and had I ever heard this one before I would absolutely have used it!
He will also get a few sticks for the entertainment provided!
First off, thanks for the contest. Great idea.
Now for the threadjack:
Thanks for the explanation above. I (we) have long bitched about the way the holes are handicapped at our course and I've never heard it explained like this before. Allow me to elaborate:
- The 6th at our course is a fairly short par 5, playing 489 from the tips and 476 from the whites. It's ranked #1 handicap and I could never understand why it was the ranked as "hardest hole" on the course. I mean, let's face it, any decent golfer can hit 3 7 irons (including off the tee) and 2 putt for a par. What's so hard about that?. Now I understand it's a popular misconception and that the ranking is truly correct. The approach is over water, but has quite a lengthy landing area between the pond and the green, so the better golfers can routinely make it in 2, hence a normally easy 2 putt for brdie, where-as hackers are playing pinball in the trees down both sides of the fairway and then dumping a couple in the water, hence the huge difference in scores.
- The 11th is a fairly long par 3 (197 from the tips, across a hazard, through a narrowed opening through the trees due to the angle, whereas the whites play less than 190, hazard down the left only and a wide opening), and while it's the 16th ranked hole at our course, brochures and magazines of the area class it as "The hardest par 3 in Essex County". WTF we always say. Again, I now understand the reason for the ranking on that particular hole.
rbbrock
Active Member
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- Apr 3, 2007
- Messages
- 1,032
Thanks very much, Jeff. That is not necessary, but very much appreciated.
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2007
- Messages
- 11,103
Yeah this is pretty common. Imagine a 900 yard par 4 with a 1 yard wide fairway and water on both sides! It would be the #18 handicap hole because everyone would score the same on it!
Hmmmmm, let's see. Longest putt I've ever had to hit is probably 60 ft = 20 yds, so I guess I could get a 45 on that hole with the flat stick!!!! Might even get away with a 40 if I didn't shank any!!!! :laugh:
Thanks for the contest!!!
Per USGA procedures, your answer to Question 1 is not exactly correct. The Handicap Differential = (Adjusted Gross Score - Course rating) x 113 / Slope. You then take the best 10 differentials computed from the last 20 qualified scores, find the average differential, multiply by 0.96, and truncate to one decimal place. :laugh: There is also another "tournament factor" but I never learned how that works.
Cheers,
antaean
Per USGA procedures, your answer to Question 1 is not exactly correct. The Handicap Differential = (Adjusted Gross Score - Course rating) x 113 / Slope. You then take the best 10 differentials computed from the last 20 qualified scores, find the average differential, multiply by 0.96, and truncate to one decimal place. :laugh: There is also another "tournament factor" but I never learned how that works.
Cheers,
antaean
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2007
- Messages
- 11,103
The "tournament factor" you reference is interesting. It is a caveat in the system to capture cheaters or sandbaggers (the ones who magically shoot their best scores in tournaments) and penalizes them by lowering their handicap based on the delta between the tournament scores and their everyday scores. I used to know the formula because it happened to a friend of mine who is the last person in the world to cheat or sandbag, he simply played out of his butt in two consecutive tournaments shooting 74 and 76 as a 14 handicap. A week later he attempted to post a 98, which he shot with me, and the computer flashed "this is an exceptionally high score, are you sure you want to post it?" and when he hit "yes" his handicap went down! The look on his face was priceless!
I only knew about this since I had played as a substitute in a summer league. I was playing for a vacationing partner in the second place team. I shot my best score (for 9 holes) of the entire year that day and was 5 or 6 strokes below my average. I thought the league committee was cheating when they revised the results of the round.
Golf surely is a tricky little game. :love:
Golf surely is a tricky little game. :love:
CigarStone
For once, knowledge is making me poor!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2007
- Messages
- 11,103
Yes it is, and if I may get my soap box for a moment!
I would much rather have been good enough at football, or baseball, to play at the level I played golf but then again, maybe not. I much preferred the athletic side of life but golf is the only game in which you will play by the same rules from jr. high school to Tiger Woods. There are no ignored fouls, or vicinity tag, or four steps to the hoop, or questionable officiating.........the rules are clear cut and enforced the same for every person who plays regardless of the level of competition. Many people choose to ignore the rules of golf, claiming it's less fun to have to play by the rules, (that's a story in and of itself) but they are only playing in their weekend game with other people who think likewise. I have never understood how writing down an honest 6, instead of the preferred 4, can change the fun of the game?
Okay, off the box now!
I had stated at the outset of this contest that I had contemplated occasionally throwing out some golf tid-bits and knowledge but based on the number of people who entered the contest I would guess it is better left in my head.
At least there is something in there
Alph Chomper
New Member
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- Dec 14, 2003
- Messages
- 226
1. A handicap is the average of my 10 best scores from the pool of 20 most recent submitted scores. The average of my scores is subtracted from the avg course rating rounded and is my hancdicap. In simple terms it ells how many over par I am on a better than average day.
2. Handicap determines how many shot difference, and thus strokes are given from one player to another or to a field of players, based on the lowest handicap (note handicap can be zero or even plus numbers). Handicaps are only for amateur players, not Professionals. Let's say your handicap is 5 and mine is 12. I get a shot on the handicap holes 1 2 3 4 5 6 and 7. So I subtract a shot on those holes in match play when comparing to your's. Note the handicap holes alternate between odd numbers on the back nine and even on the front. They are usuallly based on the toughest holes to score on, sometimes mistaken for the toughest par. However a 240 yard par 3 is an easier hole than a 290 yard par 4, despite the differences in their pars
3. Course rating is a rating by USGA or State golf associations to identify relative diffficulty among different golf courses for comparison for handicapping. Based on length, topography it is usually in the neighborhood of par.
4. Slope , yeah well that is how difficult a course is, we'll leave it there. Higher number more difficult.
5. Player slices wildly into a water hazard, he has a few options. A Stroke and distance, so drop or tee the ball right from where the first shot was hit, playing 3 if it were a tee shot (origianal ball, penalty, next ball). B. Keeping the point at which the ball crossed into the hazard between himself and the green, player may drop back as far as desired, and drop ball, 1 stroke penalty. This could be on either side of the water hazard. C. At the point the ball crossed into the hazard, you may drop your ball within 2 club lengths of that spot and play with a 1 stroke penalty.
6. It depends on match play X medal play. Match play I can have the player tee off again from within the tee box. In medal play, he nmmust replay with a 2 stroke penalty (hitting 3). Boy, move back from the line of the tee markers, that is so easy!
2. Handicap determines how many shot difference, and thus strokes are given from one player to another or to a field of players, based on the lowest handicap (note handicap can be zero or even plus numbers). Handicaps are only for amateur players, not Professionals. Let's say your handicap is 5 and mine is 12. I get a shot on the handicap holes 1 2 3 4 5 6 and 7. So I subtract a shot on those holes in match play when comparing to your's. Note the handicap holes alternate between odd numbers on the back nine and even on the front. They are usuallly based on the toughest holes to score on, sometimes mistaken for the toughest par. However a 240 yard par 3 is an easier hole than a 290 yard par 4, despite the differences in their pars
3. Course rating is a rating by USGA or State golf associations to identify relative diffficulty among different golf courses for comparison for handicapping. Based on length, topography it is usually in the neighborhood of par.
4. Slope , yeah well that is how difficult a course is, we'll leave it there. Higher number more difficult.
5. Player slices wildly into a water hazard, he has a few options. A Stroke and distance, so drop or tee the ball right from where the first shot was hit, playing 3 if it were a tee shot (origianal ball, penalty, next ball). B. Keeping the point at which the ball crossed into the hazard between himself and the green, player may drop back as far as desired, and drop ball, 1 stroke penalty. This could be on either side of the water hazard. C. At the point the ball crossed into the hazard, you may drop your ball within 2 club lengths of that spot and play with a 1 stroke penalty.
6. It depends on match play X medal play. Match play I can have the player tee off again from within the tee box. In medal play, he nmmust replay with a 2 stroke penalty (hitting 3). Boy, move back from the line of the tee markers, that is so easy!
Alph Chomper
New Member
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- Dec 14, 2003
- Messages
- 226
Yards. I can't say I ever played a course measured in meters.
In spite of the fact that Canada is officially metric, many of us who were edumacated in foots & ozees still buy "quarts" of milk, by material by the "yard", meat by the "pound", etc.
Just today I was at the hardware store buying 1/2" black pipe to hook up the new NG BBQ. Nobody ever heard of pipe measured in Metricity (new word for today!!! :laugh: )!!!!
