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A Question for Hockey Fans.

smokintexas

smokintexas

What have I gotton myself into?!
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
1,260
Well, from the looks of it the Stars aren't going to make the playoffs this year, which is surprising, and disheartening, considering their post season success last year. Many folks here in Dallas are quick to jump on the back of Turco because of his lackluster season but IMO the problem runs a bit deeper than just Turco. First off, the man has started something like 73 of 78 games so far. He hasn't finished every game he is started, but that is still a staggering number. The other problems we have faced this year are injuries (Richards, Morrow, Zubov, Lehtinen to name a few, and the list goes on), special teams play (I don't know the percentages off the top of my head, but they are just about pathetic), and the inability to finish games. One statistic I know is that in 7 of the last 10 losses the Stars scored first. It seems as though we are still getting many opportunities to score, we just aren't putting the puck in the net. We've definitely got a ton of talent, but our team is fairly old, and we are very close to the salary cap. If you were Hull and Jackson (Co-GM's) what would you do? Like I said there are many people calling for Turco's head, but I don't think the blame can be placed solely on his shoulders. We need a better back up goalie so that Turco can get some kind of rest, and the coaching staff has to figure something out to take advantage of the opportunities we are given.

Would you get rid of Turco, or make any big moves in the offseason, or leave the team as it is, maybe pick up a better backup, and light a fire under Tippett's ass to turn things around?
 
I can't answer your questions but I can tell you that when Zubov was in Pittsburgh all you ever heard was " SHOOT THE PUCK!"

Used to drive you nuts- he'd have a clear shot at the net and look around for someone to pass to.

I haven't followed his career but assume that he has improved - I think he has been with the Stars for awhile?

Yeah I know - I took a left turn with this. :)
 
Keystone_Raider said:
I can't answer your questions but I can tell you that when Zubov was in Pittsburgh all you ever heard was " SHOOT THE PUCK!"

Used to drive you nuts- he'd have a clear shot at the net and look around for someone to pass to.

I haven't followed his career but assume that he has improved - I think he has been with the Stars for awhile?

Yeah I know - I took a left turn with this. :)
Click to expand...

It seems, to me at least, that Zubov has always had a "pass first" mentality. His ONLY problem is that his slap shot has never been overpowering and I think he realizes this. He has done wonders for the Stars through the years, and has been an instrumental part of the team. His leadership, and ability to get us through the neutral zone are what make him so important, and his absence from the team due to injury this season are one of the main reasons we are on the outside looking in.

Edit:

Your inquiry made me look into how long he's actually been with the Stars. He came over from Pitt during the 96-97 season and has been with the Stars since.
 
Keystone_Raider said:
I can't answer your questions but I can tell you that when Zubov was in Pittsburgh all you ever heard was " SHOOT THE PUCK!"

Used to drive you nuts- he'd have a clear shot at the net and look around for someone to pass to.

I haven't followed his career but assume that he has improved - I think he has been with the Stars for awhile?

Yeah I know - I took a left turn with this. :)
Click to expand...
Kyle, you really should ignore anything a Penguins fan has to say. Now, I'm a Flyers fan, so that puts me up a few notches from Jim!
 
I know, the Flyers are losing tonight while the Pens are winning.
 
A few notches up? :rolleyes:

Premium 10er says if the Pens meet the Flyer's in the playoffs- The Flyer's LOSE!

What say you? Brian :whistling:

Sorry for the thread jack Kyle.
 
Keystone_Raider said:
A few notches up? :rolleyes:

Premium 10er says if the Pens meet the Flyer's in the playoffs- The Flyer's LOSE!

What say you? Brian :whistling:

Sorry for the thread jack Kyle.
Click to expand...
How 'bout a premium 5'er? The Flyers don't play the Pens very well for some reason. :blush:
 
Your both wrong...

First off Dallas needs to focus on their farm team for a year (Like the Rangers) and regroup. They need to start building confidence in the youngins (Like the Rangers) and then let the elders go out in a blaze of glory (Like the Rangers)... It was all downhill when they signed Avery... That was the plan Sather had all along.

Secondly here is how the playoffs work:

East RD 1
Boston vs Florida - Boston in 5
Devils vs Rangers - Rangers in 6
Washington vs Pitts. - Washington in 7 (Great series)
Philly vs Carolina - Philly in 6

East RD 2
Boston vs Rangers - Rangers in 5 (YES 5)
Washington Vs Philly - Caps in 6

East RD 3
Rangers vs Caps - Rangers in ??? (GREAT SERIES)
 
bully1875 said:
Your both wrong...

First off Dallas needs to focus on their farm team for a year (Like the Rangers) and regroup. They need to start building confidence in the youngins (Like the Rangers) and then let the elders go out in a blaze of glory (Like the Rangers)... It was all downhill when they signed Avery... That was the plan Sather had all along.

Secondly here is how the playoffs work:

East RD 1
Boston vs Florida - Boston in 5
Devils vs Rangers - Rangers in 6
Washington vs Pitts. - Washington in 7 (Great series)
Philly vs Carolina - Philly in 6

East RD 2
Boston vs Rangers - Rangers in 5 (YES 5)
Philly vs Pitts - Pitts in 6

East RD 3
Rangers vs Pitts - Rangers in ??? (GREAT SERIES)
Click to expand...
You're fuggin crazy. How 'bout you and I put up a premium 5er on who goes further in the playoffs, the Flyers or the Rangers? If for instance, they both go out in the second round, we go to wins in that series. If they both have the same # of wins, we go to goals scored in that series. What say you oh hated Blueshirt fan?

btw, you have Pit going down in the 1st round....how are the Rangers gonna meet them in the Finals??
 
Jonesy said:
bully1875 said:
Your both wrong...

First off Dallas needs to focus on their farm team for a year (Like the Rangers) and regroup. They need to start building confidence in the youngins (Like the Rangers) and then let the elders go out in a blaze of glory (Like the Rangers)... It was all downhill when they signed Avery... That was the plan Sather had all along.

Secondly here is how the playoffs work:

East RD 1
Boston vs Florida - Boston in 5
Devils vs Rangers - Rangers in 6
Washington vs Pitts. - Washington in 7 (Great series)
Philly vs Carolina - Philly in 6

East RD 2
Boston vs Rangers - Rangers in 5 (YES 5)
Washington Vs Philly - Caps in 6

East RD 3
Caps Vs Rangers - Rangers in ??? (GREAT SERIES)
Click to expand...
You're fuggin crazy. How 'bout you and I put up a premium 5er on who goes further in the playoffs, the Flyers or the Rangers? If for instance, they both go out in the second round, we go to wins in that series. If they both have the same # of wins, we go to goals scored in that series. What say you oh hated Blueshirt fan?

btw, you have Pit going down in the 1st round....how are the Rangers gonna meet them in the Finals??
Click to expand...


Brian, lay off the crack :) I never said that :whistling:

Premium fiver is accepted.
 
Smokin, there probably isn't one reason you guys headed south so quickly, but a culmination. Turco hasn't been great, and yeah, that hasn't helped, but there are other things as well. You guys don't have a steady back up to lean on and spell Turco. Heck, even if you guys squeaked into the dance right now you gotta worry about Turco's fatigue. Honestly, Hull screwed the pooch with the Avery deal. 4 year deal? All us Kings fans were just waiting for the shoe to fall on that one. Morrow is out, Zubov (who is a poor-mans Lidstrom, and I mean that as a very high compliment) is out, the Avery fiasco, etc.

I think one thing you can take stock in is James Neal. That kid looks like the real deal. Stocking up prospects and picks would be good. I don't know how your farm team is but if you guys don't have young studs coming soon you need to get some quickly. I think it's time for the Stars to let go of the older players and focus on the up-and-comers. That's what the Kings are doing now and at times it's been painful and at times it's been awesome. Also, what's your salary cap situation? The cap is gonna be steady next season but all indications point to it heading down very soon. Do the Stars have cap flexibilty?

Lastly, just be glad you're not an Avs fan. Ha! I'm glad to see them at the bottom. That's what happens when you spend so many year near the top, your franchise has to pay it's dues sooner or later!

P.S. Please tell me you're not one of the fans who yell "stars" during the national anthem. It's annoying.

Okay, enough rambling, go Kings!
 
I think getting Turco a good, reliable back-up and giving him a few games off here and there is the simple answer. To blame Turco for the team's overall failure is to forget several key things; First, it's a team sport. One person, even the goalie, can't be to blame for everything. Secondly, it would be lunacy to get rid of Turco without a plan in place for replacing him with a proven, better goalie. I don't know the stats and numbers off-hand, but one thing I'd like to know is how many goals is the team scoring per game? And what's Turco's GAA? If your team isn't putting more than 2 goals in the net then you can't blame the goalie. Or put differently, if you're losing games with scores of 1-0, 2-1 and such then it's not the goalie's fault. Again, I don't know the exact stats.
 
Gonz:

After a bit of researching I've come up with a few statistics to answer your questions.

Turco's Save % is .897 which has him ranked 40th in the league, and his GAA is 2.83 which has him ranked as 33rd in the league. I try not to draw any conclusions from these numbers, because he has started so many games this year, and the next highest number in Games Played among goalies is the low 60's, while Turco is in the mid 70's.

Last year Tuco's Save % was .909 which had him ranked 9th and GAA was 2.3 which had him ranked 24th, these numbers are just to give you a reference point to compare his numbers from one season to the next.

I agree with you completely and think that getting rid of Turco would be a huge mistake, and that his problems this year are a combination of poor performance and fatigue. We need a solid goaltender (like the one we traded to the Lightning to get Richards) to back him up and to give him enough rest to play at a high level.

Edit to add: We have a 2.75 Goals For Average (GFA) which has us ranked in the top ten in the league, so the goals apparently are there, but the opponent seems to score more than us unfortunately.

Black Cloud:

This is a very hard point for any fan to come to, the point at which you need to agree that the future is in the young players. I have followed the Stars for many years, and have grown to really respect the likes of Modano, Lehtinen, Zubov, and Sydor but their performance just isn't the same that it used to be. Neal, Erikkson, Brunnstrom, Niskanen, Fistric, and Grossman are definitely players that I could see leading the Stars in the future, but at the moment I just can't imagine watching the Stars without Modano. The other problem is that as of right now the Stars don't have a dedicated farm team. They have 6 different affiliations with various AHL teams, but we parted ways with the Iowa Stars last year and they are now the Iowa Chops (The Anaheim Ducks farm team.) There is a new stadium that is being built in Cedar Springs I believe (just north of Austin) that will be home to the Texas Stars, the dedicated Dallas Stars farm team. So it looks like at the time the future that we have is on the team, and any future prospects that we hope to acquire will be a result of the new team forming in Austin.

There have been many issues on the side of management and ownership that I have disagreed with through the years, and unfortunately, IMO, the biggest help this team could get is Hicks selling the team (and hell, he could sell the Rangers while he's at it.) The market in Dallas for hockey has never been huge, but the market in Dallas for a losing hockey team is even smaller. I hope that there are moves made in the offseason to acquire a good backup and to fill some of the holes that are in the current roster. I also hope that we don't get ravaged with injuries next year like we did this year.

I have always been a Stars fan, and will continue to be no matter how many points we have, and no matter how many points back we are in the playoff race, I just hope that for the sake of the team, and the fans, the correct moves are made to bring at least one more cup home to Dallas in the future (I'm not saying next year, or the next 10 years, but sometime!)
 
Smokin', I feel your pain. I became a Kings fan recently (2002-ish) and wasn't really aware of their long suffering fanbase at the time. 40 years in the NHL and just a couple of highlights to show for it. We Kings fans are accustomed to the pain of rooting for a under-achieving team. Anyway, I really can't see the Stars trading Turco right now. To my knowledge you guys don't have a blue-chip goalie prospect waiting to break in. That would mean you'd either have to trade for an elite goalie (which doesn't happen very often) or go after a UFA. The UFA goalies I'm aware of are Tim Thomas in Boston and Khabibulin in Chicago. Thomas would be good but I don't know if you guys could afford him. Khabibulin could work but I'd say he's only got one or two more years left in him. So I say stick with Turco (who is still one of the top 10 goalies in the league as far as I'm concerned) and focus on getting a decent backup.

Getting your own farm team is a great advantage. You just gotta have faith in your scouts and GM(s) to draft quality prospects and not sell them off for over-the-hill vets. Sooner or later Modano is gonna retire, just as Sakic will in Colorado. You just gotta hope that the young guys coming up can help fill those huge shoes.

Edit: I just remembered Clemmenson in NJ (down in the AHL in Lowell). He basically saved the Devil's season while Brodeur was out. Some team is gonna go kicking the tires on Clemmenson and I would think Dallas would be one of them. Or at least they should be one of them.
 
bully1875 said:
Your both wrong...

First off Dallas needs to focus on their farm team for a year (Like the Rangers) and regroup. They need to start building confidence in the youngins (Like the Rangers) and then let the elders go out in a blaze of glory (Like the Rangers)... It was all downhill when they signed Avery... That was the plan Sather had all along.

Secondly here is how the playoffs work:

East RD 1
Boston vs Florida - Boston in 5
Devils vs Rangers - Rangers in 6
Washington vs Pitts. - Washington in 7 (Great series)
Philly vs Carolina - Philly in 6

East RD 2
Boston vs Rangers - Rangers in 5 (YES 5)
Washington Vs Philly - Caps in 6

East RD 3
Rangers vs Caps - Rangers in ??? (GREAT SERIES)
Click to expand...


No way the Rangers make it to round 3.....even if they do I think the Caps would take them....if we have a goalie show up for the game. GO CAPS!
 
Turco had an off season, but you can't put it all on him. Trust me, I had him on my fantasy team, and I really wanted to.

NC on the Rangers ... lets see them make it first ;)
 
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