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Anyone interested in how geologists date rocks?

hydro-terp

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
180
I just finished an interesting post on another board and since I went through the trouble to type the geochronologist manifesto I thought someone else might be interested in reading it.

I promise it wont make your head hurt. :D

Russell
 
Only if there was a raging debate about it and you totally owned someone with your knowledge.
 
Lumberg said:
Only if there was a raging debate about it and you totally owned someone with your knowledge.
[snapback]201883[/snapback]​
I suppose you can guess what type of person I was heavily engaged with. :cool:

Disclaimer: I am not a geochronologist but my degree is in geology. It is not something I do but I have studied it in college. I know people who do this stuff. If I mistype, misspell, or use the wrong word it doesn’t take away from the bread and butter of the process. They have entire dictionaries devoted to scientific terminology and I don’t walk around with that stuff in my head. Also I’m trying to be brief so some parts may be oversimplified. I’m not writing a thesis here

OK buys and girls get your pen and paper out. Lets talk radiometric dating of rocks.

Lets start with a definition that is core to radiometric dating. An isotope is a radionuclide of an element that either has an excess or deficiency in the number of neutrons in the nucleus. Because of this it’s not a happy element. To get happy it sheds of gains neutrons to become a stable element. This is radioactive decay. The rate of decay is something that can be measured in the laboratory. Anybody heard of the phrase half-life? These isotopes decay into stable elements, which are called daughter elements. The isotope it comes from is called the parent element. For every daughter element there once was a parent element.

Math is really the only thing that can be proven. Two plus two is four right? Not five, not three, but four. Radioactive decay happens exponentially. This can be expressed in a calculus function that is taught in every first semester Calc class. If you know how many daughter isotopes you have, how many parent isotopes you have, and the decay rate which has been measured previously, then it’s a pretty simple integration solving for t time.

Geologists date rocks by collecting samples and running them through a mass spectrometer. The samples are dissolved and thrown past a big honking magnet in like a tube. Because different elements have different weights they are attracted differently to the magnet as they pass by. Heavy stuff that gets attracted to the magnet will have an arc and liter stuff will go straighter. Just passin’ through the neighborhood so to speak. Out the backside is like a piece of flypaper type thing that the elements stick to. (I’m really oversimplifying this part there is no flypaper :D). They then measure how much deviation is each of the paths with a computer and then they can quantify how much of each element/isotope they have etc compared to previous calculations of known elements. OK enough about mass specs.

There are naturally occurring isotopes all over. Geologists collect rocks and then run them through a mass spec and use whatever methodology matches the mineralogical composition of the sample. A common one used on igneous rocks such as granite etc. is potassium (K) – argon (Ar) dating. It’s useful because potassium is the building block of many minerals found in many igneous rocks. An unstable isotope of K decays into a stable isotope of Ar. The reason that this is so useful and pretty bullet proof is that this is one time that assuming something doesn’t make an ass out of you and me. So how do we know, or assume, that there wasn’t any Ar in the mineral during the formation? Argon is a noble element meaning it don’t like hangin with any of the others. That’s why they use it in MIG welders as a shielding gas. So it’s logical to assume that it didn’t go against every scientific law known to man and jump into the potassium bearing mineral during formation.

So crunch you sample, run it through a mass spec, measure the quantities of everything that spits out the other end, do some integration and solve for t, and presto you have a date.

There are other methods that don’t use elements that had quantities of 0 back when the mineral was formed. They can calculate the amount that was present at the beginning by some wacky isochrones and stuff that makes my head hurt thinking about it so I’m leaving that out now for sanities sake. I’m also basically tired of typing.

This dear friends is how rocks are dated. They’ve been doing this stuff for the better apart of the 20th century so the numbers were dealing with now are pretty damn solid.

The above was paraphased from chapter 16 of Principles and Applications of Geochemisty 2nd edition by Gunter Faure.

Russell
 
"These isotopes decay into stable elements, which are called daughter elements. The isotope it comes from is called the parent element. For every daughter element there once was a parent element."

Daughters and parents usually have a lot to do with dating, rocks included. :D
 
Castaway said:
"These isotopes decay into stable elements, which are called daughter elements. The isotope it comes from is called the parent element. For every daughter element there once was a parent element."

Daughters and parents usually have a lot to do with dating, rocks included. :D
[snapback]201901[/snapback]​

I likie the Carcaridon megalodon tooth ya got there. :D

My freind had one but he sold it to a collector before I could snag it.

R
 
Ok, I don't speak nerd so can someone please translate?


Holy crap I just saw your location hydro

My good friend and strength coach in college was assistant strength coach at UMD until APril.
 
First they take them to dinner . . . then a movie and then if they are lucky . . .
 
Way too much trouble. Just ask ggiese, he's old. :0
 
atuck said:
I found some interesting articles on it on this website:

http://drdino.com/index.php
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Yeeeaaah I read the 7 articles in the geology section.

They make some broad genralizations and some facts are missing or omitted. Whats they say about the dating of rocks is wrong. If there position is that the rate of radiactive decay varies then they are basically ignoring all the scientific data that has been compiled in the last 75-100 years. If there is anything in nature that is completly predictable its radiactive decay.

R
 
hydro-terp said:
Castaway said:
"These isotopes decay into stable elements, which are called daughter elements. The isotope it comes from is called the parent element. For every daughter element there once was a parent element."

Daughters and parents usually have a lot to do with dating, rocks included.  :D
[snapback]201901[/snapback]​

I likie the Carcaridon megalodon tooth ya got there. :D

My freind had one but he sold it to a collector before I could snag it.

R
[snapback]201905[/snapback]​

Venice is the shark's tooth capital of the world, ya know. I wondered if anyone knew what the he!! my avatar was... :thumbs:
 
Venice is the shark's tooth capital of the world, ya know. I wondered if anyone knew what the he!! my avatar was... :thumbs:

Yup, I have a jar of teeth from my last trip to Venice.

:cool:
 
Castaway said:
hydro-terp said:
Castaway said:
"These isotopes decay into stable elements, which are called daughter elements. The isotope it comes from is called the parent element. For every daughter element there once was a parent element."

Daughters and parents usually have a lot to do with dating, rocks included.  :D
[snapback]201901[/snapback]​

I likie the Carcaridon megalodon tooth ya got there. :D

My freind had one but he sold it to a collector before I could snag it.

R
[snapback]201905[/snapback]​

Venice is the shark's tooth capital of the world, ya know. I wondered if anyone knew what the he!! my avatar was... :thumbs:
[snapback]201999[/snapback]​

Before reality sunk in I had aspirations to be a marine biologist and gave a talk on them.

You ever handle one? There as big as your hand.

R
 
Castaway said:
hydro-terp said:
Castaway said:
"These isotopes decay into stable elements, which are called daughter elements. The isotope it comes from is called the parent element. For every daughter element there once was a parent element."

Daughters and parents usually have a lot to do with dating, rocks included.  :D
[snapback]201901[/snapback]​

I likie the Carcaridon megalodon tooth ya got there. :D

My freind had one but he sold it to a collector before I could snag it.

R
[snapback]201905[/snapback]​

Venice is the shark's tooth capital of the world, ya know. I wondered if anyone knew what the he!! my avatar was... :thumbs:
[snapback]201999[/snapback]​

Ohhh, that's what it is. I always thought it was one of those old Spanish type sailing hats from the days of Columbus and what not. I guess I never took more than a glance at it. And all this time I thought you were an explorer or something...
 
Hydro-Terp: The souvineer store downtown has alot on display, but not for sale. They are big! The divers get the big ones off the beach alot. There used to be more smaller ones right on the beach, but recent beach renurishment projects seem to have have covered them up.

Gonz: Explorer...hmmm, I like that. But that sure would be a g@y looking hat. :D
 
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