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BEETLE'S

smokers only

New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
259
Alright I need some help guys...

I just went through my whole humidor and I found a few cigars had some hole's in them, I seen some beetles also. :angry:

My question is this: What is the best and fastest way to get rid of them and keep them out? I have a lot of money in this humidor and I dont want to lose it! :(

walk in Humidor is 150sq ft.

Please help out....

thanks,matt
 
Beetles don't like cedar, so the wood is ok. I would double ziploc bag each box, put them in the fridge for 24 hours, then into the deep freezer for 48 hours, then back into the fridge for 24 hours. While this is going on, figure out why the hell your humidor is so warm. You'll need one of those deep freezers to get cold enough to kill them. Word of the wise, if your ditributer doesn't deep freeze, you probably should. If you dont or can't, make sure your humi stays nice and cool(60-65) year round.

Emo
 
emodx said:
Beetles don't like cedar, so the wood is ok. I would double ziploc bag each box, put them in the fridge for 24 hours, then into the deep freezer for 48 hours, then back into the fridge for 24 hours. While this is going on, figure out why the hell your humidor is so warm. You'll need one of those deep freezers to get cold enough to kill them. Word of the wise, if your ditributer doesn't deep freeze, you probably should. If you dont or can't, make sure your humi stays nice and cool(60-65) year round.

Emo
Thanks, Iam going to lower the RH right away. that will keep the beetle's out better? Also I have a lot of boxes in the humidor, is there any other ways than freeze each box?

thanks guys...
-matt
 
smokers only said:
emodx said:
Beetles don't like cedar, so the wood is ok. I would double ziploc bag each box, put them in the fridge for 24 hours, then into the deep freezer for 48 hours, then back into the fridge for 24 hours. While this is going on, figure out why the hell your humidor is so warm. You'll need one of those deep freezers to get cold enough to kill them. Word of the wise, if your ditributer doesn't deep freeze, you probably should. If you dont or can't, make sure your humi stays nice and cool(60-65) year round.

Emo
Thanks, Iam going to lower the RH right away. that will keep the beetle's out better? Also I have a lot of boxes in the humidor, is there any other ways than freeze each box?

thanks guys...
-matt
No, lower the temp. Beetle hatching is directly related to average temperature. The reason you double bag each box is because the freezer will leach moisture from the cigars.
Emo
 
Didn’t you just close on your shop?
By all means, start taking steps to prevent further beetle damage, but of equal importance, you should call your lawyer. If you don’t have a regular attorney, start by calling the one who handled your closing. The seller may have some liability here. It doesn’t sound like he conveyed what you believed the contract called for. (Unless of course you did in fact intend to contract for a shop full of beetles).
Seriously!! Get professional help ASAP! Every day you delay, is one more that the seller can claim you mismanaged the inventory.
 
Thanks... The old owner dont know his ****! He has his temp and RH way to high!

thanks for the info... I just want to stop this before its to late!

-Matt
 
BTW, this probably won't be the last time you see beetles. I saw some in some cigars in a local shop here -- it happens from time to time. They generally hatch during shipment, or because they were stored too long in too high of a temperature.

The important thing is making sure there are no LIVE beetles in your walk-in humidor.
 
now let me ask something else. If I start freezing each box, I cant do all of them at once so while iam doing some and get them alright and put them back in the humidor. The boxes I didnt do yet could have beetles in there and move to what i just took out of the freezer. ???

Iam going to go in the shop tomorrow to lower the temp and RH. What do you think I should set it to right away?

-matt
 
MilesMingusMonk said:
How many boxes have evidence of one or more cigars with an infestation problem?
Atleast four box's but I seen some live ones in the humidor!

-matt
 
smokers only said:
now let me ask something else. If I start freezing each box, I cant do all of them at once so while iam doing some and get them alright and put them back in the humidor. The boxes I didnt do yet could have beetles in there and move to what i just took out of the freezer. ???
It seems to me that since you have already noticed the live beetles, that you may have to do it all at once.

Maybe contact a local RentACenter to rent 2 or 3 (?) full size stand-alone deep freezes for a week OR maybe rent a freezer truck if your stock exceeds the stand alone units... In addition, you'll have to find the fridge space too.

Use the time when your walk in is empty to clean it out. Check the system to make sure it is operating correctly as well as circulating air. Bring in a specialist if necessary.
 
I would set your temp to 65 F and your RH to %66/67 if you have that kind of control. Most Domestics smoke best at %68-70, but most get shipped on the wet side. If I had a shop, this is what I would do.
1. I would buy a used Fridge and a used deep freeze.
2. Set the fridge to about 50 degrees and place a Cigar Oasis II set to %60 RH in the fridge.
3. Place each shipment received in the fridge for 72 hours.
4. Move the cigars from the fridge to the freezer in double ziplocs. Keep in the freezer for 72 hours.
5. Move the cigars from the freezer, back to the fridge for another 72 hours.
6. Smoke one, if it smokes good, move them to the walk-in. If it is too wet, keep in the fridge for another 3 days.
This is what I would do if it was my shop. You can't afford beetles in your walk in, and I as a consumer, can't stand buying a cigar from a shop that is too wet and burns terribly. One day I will own my own store, but until then, I will frequent the store with the best quality and great customer service. Good luck with your venture!

Emo
 
Well thanks for all the help guys, Iam going to the shop tomorrow and iam going to look at the humidifier and set it diffrent. Iam going to start with the freezing and set up some traps. How well do the traps work? I have to learn how to keep the temp, and the RH the right way and make it better in there.

I talk to a lot of other shops and they all tell me thry have had these problems before! But I just want to get rid of them before this gets worse!

-matt
 
call an exterminator - let the professionals get rid of your beetles in the humidor - pay him once, get rid of them the right way!
 
I just was reading and they say I could spray with Phostoxin, witch says it doesnt harm the product at all. But will kill all the beetles in all stages. what do you think?
where can you buy this at?

-matt

I dont think I can buy this, I think I would have to have a company spray it. :angry:
 
smokers only said:
I just was reading and they say I could spray with Phostoxin, witch says it doesnt harm the product at all. But will kill all the beetles in all stages. what do you think?
where can you buy this at?
:0 Don't do it. :0


aluminum phosphide (Phostoxin) Pesticide Fact Sheet 8/86
EPA Pesticide Fact Sheet

Name of Chemical: Aluminum Phosphide
Reason for Issuance:
Date Issued: 0CT 8, 1986

Fact Sheet Number: 69.1


1. Description of Chemical

Generic Name: Aluminum Phosphide
Trade Names: Phostoxin, Phosphume, Phostek, etc.
EPA Shaughnessy Code: 066501
Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) Number: 20859-73-8
Year of Initial Registration: 1978
Pesticide Type: Solid
Chemical Family: Inorganic Phosphides
U.S. and Foreign Producers: Degesch America, Inc.;
Research Products Co., Pestcon Systems, Inc., Bernardo Chemicals.

2. Use Patterns and Formulations

Application Sites: Indoor fumigation of agricultural food commodities, animal
feeds, processed food commodities and non-food commodities (tobacco). Outdoor
fumigation for burrowing rodent and mole control.

Application Rates: 30 tablets or 75 pellets per square foot for fumigation of
mills and warehouses; 1-4 tablets or 5-20 pellets for rodent burrows.

Formulations: Tablets and pellets; powders in bags, envelopes and other types
of containers.

3. Science Findings

Summary Science Statement: The Agency has determined that the registered uses
of this chemical will not generally cause unreasonable adverse effects to
humans or the environment if used in accordance with the approved use
directions and revised precautionary statements prescribed by the registration
standard.


Chemical Characteristics: Solid, dark gray material (granules, or powder);
molecular weight 57.96; material must be protected from moisture in the
atmosphere in air-tight containers; contact of the solid material with
moisture in the air! or with water, or acids release phosphine, a highly toxic
gas.

Toxicology Characteristics: Requirements for acute toxicity data have been
waived because of the well known extreme inhalation toxicity of phosphine gas
which it generates. Accordingly, aluminum phosphide has been placed in
toxicity category I, the highest toxicity category.

No chronic toxicology studies are required with respect to dietary exposure
because there is not potential for dietary exposure (tolerances are set at
limit of detection).

Toxicology studies on phosphine gas are required to assess the margins of
safety for exposed workers and applicators because the Agency does not have
adequate data to determine whether phosphine may cause any long term adverse
effects to humans.

Environmental Characteristics: Aluminum phosphide reacts with moisture or
water to release phosphine gas, which eventually dissipates into the
atmosphere. The resulting material from the reaction is aluminum hydroxide, a
relatively inert and innocuous material, which is a constituent of clay.

Exposure (monitoring data) and related information are required to help assess
the margins of safety for applicators and workers exposed to phosphine gas.

Ecological Characteristics: Phosphine is a highly toxic gas to a wide range of
living organisms. Indoor uses pose no risk to non-target organisms outside of
the site to be treated. Outdoor end use products (i.e., rodent and mole
control) must bear special precautionary labeling to protect endangered
species. Manufacturing use products must bear environmental hazard statements
for wildlife.

Tolerance Assessment: Tolerances have been established for raw agricultural
commodities at a level of 0.1 ppm (40 CFR 180.225); processed foods 0.01 ppm
(21 CFR 193.20); and animal feeds 0.1 ppm (40 CFR 561.40). Finished food and
feed must be held 48 hours prior to being offered to the consumer; tobacco
fumigated in hogsheads must be aerated 72 hours.

4. Summary of Regulatory Position

Aluminum phosphide will remain a Restricted Use Pesticide due to the extreme
acute toxicity of phosphine gas which is released from the pesticide when it
is exposed to moisture in the air. Therefore, it may by used only by certified
applicators or persons under their supervision.

This amended standard adds several new regulatory requirements to the label:

--For retail sale to and use only by a certified applicator or by persons
trained in accordance with the product manual working under the direct
supervision and in the physical presence of the certified applicator.

--Respiratory protection is not required if the fumigant is applied from
outside of a site such as a railroad car or to fill an automatic dispenser
located outside of a structure. However, if the applicator enters a confined
space to apply the fumigant, respiratory protection is required. Exposure
during application within a confined space may not exceed 0.3 ppm phosphine as
an 8 hour time weighted average (TWA). Engineering controls such as forced air
ventilation are recommended as the primary means of meeting the exposure
standard. Otherwise, an approved respirator must be worn.

--Monitoring must be conducted with a low level detector device to assure that
the exposure standard is not exceeded. If monitoring shows that exposure is
less than the standard, no respirator is required. If more than 0.3 ppm TWA is
encountered, a full face NIOSH/MSHA approved canister respirator is required
up to 15 ppm phosphine. This type of respirator must be available during
fumigation within a confined space. If more than 15 ppm or unknown levels of
phosphine are present, a NOISH/MSHA approved self contained breathing
apparatus (SCBA) is required. SCBA must be available at the site or locally
such as at a fire department or rescue squad.

--After application, no person may be exposed to more than 0.3 ppm phosphine
(maximum concentration). Exposures may occur if the fumigated site leaks into
an adjacent indoor area, during transfer of treated commodity, or during
reentry into an incompletely aerated space.

--All entrances to a fumigated site must be placarded (except for railroad
hopper cars which must be placarded on both sides near the ladders and on the
top hatch where fumigant was applied). A placard may only be removed after the
commodity is completely aerated. Each fumigated site must be monitored and
shown to contain 0.3 ppm or less phosphine in the air space around and in the
mass of the commodity. If more than 0.3 ppm is detected, the placard must be
transferred with the treated commodity. Persons transferring or handling
incompletely aerated commodities must be informed of the presence of phosphine
and adequate measures taken to prevent exposure to more than 0.3 ppm.

--When fumigating from within a confined space or when reentering an
incompletely aerated space, two trained persons must be present.

5. Summary of Data Gaps:

90 day inhalation study in rats
Teratogenicity study in one species
Mutagenicity battery
Exposure (monitoring data and related information for major sites)

6. Contact person at EPA

Jeff Kempter, PM 32
Disinfectants Branch
Registration Division (TS-767C)
401 M. Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20460
Telephone: (703) 557-7470

DISCLAIMER: The information presented in this Pesticide Fact Sheet is for
informational purposes only and may not be used to fulfill data requirements
for pesticide registration and reregistration.
 
Captain B said:
call an exterminator - let the professionals get rid of your beetles in the humidor - pay him once, get rid of them the right way!
would they use Phostoxin? or something else?

-matt
 
Do you think this would be a waste of time or should I try this? Set some traps, clean and vacum the whole humidor, start freezing a couple box's at a time? The cigars I saw damage on were ones with no cellophane on them, the ones with cellophane were fine. Should I freeze the non cellophane box's first?

Iam going there tomorrow as Iam not open so I can start with this mess.

-Matt
 
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