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Classic car restoration

bchem

bchem

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
916
Location
Massachusetts
For all you car guys out there, quick history of this car:

Grandfather was a funeral director and had a 1966 Cadillac, all black, as one of the cars he used for the family in some of his funerals. My parents inherited the car when he passed away back in 1984 or 1985, don't really remember. Ran fine (think it had a straight 8 in it? all I know is that it was a big engine!) Ended up sellilng it about 10-15 years ago. Was running, but having some engine problems. I think we got about $1,000 to $1500 for it. Haven't seen or heard anything about it since...

Until this past weekend! Turns out, the exact same car (not just same model) I mean the exact car that we had in our driveway 1 years ago, is for sale for $3000 OBO where my two little sisters work!!!

I don't have the $$$ for it, but am trying to talk my dad into splitting it with me and letting me pay him back for it every month. I am hoping we can get him down to about $2000 or so.
---------------------------

Here's my question: just with the story behind it, and the fact that my grandfather bought it new, I really want the car back. What are the chances of this happening to begin with?! Besides, it looks awesome! The problem is, I know nothing about cars. It needs some cosmetic work, like some rust removal, and a new paint job. There aren't any major dings or dents in it, but the kid who has it now put stupid dice for door locks and another exhaust pipe and all that crap. Still has original radio and everything. What would be a ball park range to get this fixed up and into good looking/running conditin?

I don't even know where to start. I've looked online, but since I don't know all that much about this car, or even cars in general, I don't know if this is a realistic wish or not.

Is it possible to donate it to a high school or tech school to work on in one of their shop classes and get it back when they are done with it?


I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN HERE!!!

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Sorry for the long post, but thanks in advance for any help.


(edited to bold the important parts so you don't have to read the whole story)
 
Is this a hearse or just an old Caddy? You can spend as much as you can dream if you want but a full on restoration is gonna be some serious cash. A "let's make it look good and run OK" is less but how much will depend on your tastes. Face it, a decent paint job is $2K and a full engine rebuild will be another $2500 min unless you can do it yourself. It adds up quick.

Your '66 had a 429 CI @ 10.5 compression so you'll probably want to reduce that to 9 or so unless you get fancy with ignition timing.
 
AVB said:
Is this a hearse or just an old Caddy? You can spend as much as you can dream if you want but a full on restoration is gonna be some serious cash. A "let's make it look good and run OK" is less but how much will depend on your tastes. Face it, a decent paint job is $2K and a full engine rebuild will be another $2500 min unless you can do it yourself. It adds up quick.

Your '66 had a 429 CI @ 10.5 compression so you'll probably want to reduce that to 9 or so unless you get fancy with ignition timing.
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That last part was greek to me, but I see what you are saying as to how quickly it adds up. It runs now (as far as I know) and wouldn't need to spend the money to get it up to "show" quality, just so It looks nice (not spectacular) and runs me from point A-->B.

It is just an old Caddy, NOT a hearse.
 
It is very easy to get old parts for caddys built around then...several chevy parts can be used with a bit of research
 
You realize this car weighs about 4500 lbs and gets about 12 mpg on a good day. I'm pretty much a gear head and can handle all the drivetrain items but the cost of good interior work will raise your eyebrows. Even a new vinyl top is going to be close to $500 if it needs one. You might want just buy it and store the thing away until you can put the time and money into it. Or else learn by doing and rent a garage space for the next few years.
 
It's not going to be cheap to restore, nor is it going to be cheap to maintain, or drive. Those big old engines are gas guzzlers and somewhat tempermental.

Parts may be hard to find if things are missing or broken. I have not researched the Caddies, but I know in the case of my 61 Falcon, parts are getting extremely hard to find. Most of the old cars have been crushed it seems...

But man, what a classy ride you will have when you get it done! With that big motor you'll be able to pass everything on the road but a gas station :)
 
Actually, that was my first thought: until I could afford to get it in tip-top shape, I would just put a cover over it and store it. Maybe run it a couple times per month just to keep her happy, but that'd be about it. I was hoping that there would be some relatively inexpensive/basic things I could do to hold it over until I could afford a major restoration. It is a hard top. and other than a couple rust spots, the paint is fine. (By rust spots, I mean you can barely see the rust, but the paint is bubbling up from it and it's only in about 3 different areas.) Needless to say, it would be a sweet car to have, and a great story/item to pass down to future generations, (at least that is my hope!) My goal right now is to somehow get my hands on it. After that, I will do whatever it takes to keep it from falling apart until I can get it restored.

Fingers crossed!
 
I should have said in my previous post that even with all of the expense and trouble, old cars are a labor of love. They are becoming scarce, and to use the cliche "they just don't build 'em like that anymore".

Some guys restore cars as an investment, but it has to be PERFECT in every way to recover what you have in it. I think the way to go is to put the car in good running order, make it look good, and enjoy the ride.

A 3 generation car is a cool story!
 
AVB has a very good point in that this thing was designed to run on different (leaded?) gas. The compression might not be the problem so much as I am not sure if the valve seats are hardened.

In any case, at this age, I would factor in a complete engine restoration (or replacement--you can buy a chevy corvette crate engine or something, but then you'd need a custom drive train).

etc etc

I guess I am just chiming in with the "think REALLY hard before you jump in and find that the water is REALLy deep" crowd.
 
Bchem

As said previously older cars are a labor of love. I think it is fun to have an old auto if you have other rides, but often these are not fun autos to drive on a regular basis. If you buy it though and don't get frustrated, you will become fairly adept at knowing how autos work. My first auto was an old short bed and man was that thing a pain in the ass, but it taught me a helluva of a lot of stuff.

I say go for it and restore what you can, when you can. Do your research and have fun with it.

Also I would like to add that older cars are easier to work on than newer cars, as long as you can find the parts. I like those big bays that you can crawl in and do what you need to do without hassle. Modern cars (trucks still being the exception) are such a pain in the ass to work with, ahhh they drive me crazy.
 
If your all thumbs when it comes to restoration you might check with your local high school auto shop instructor or if you have a local trade school you could get some guidence or help from them.
 
I see what everyone is saying. And, assuming I could do anything but change the oil in the beast, the good thing is that (unlike any of the cars my friends or family own now) when you open the hood, you can ACTUALLY see the ground!!! So yeah, I can see how it would be easier to tinker with if you knew what you were doing.

IF I can get it, I wouldn't drive it reguarly. I would run around in it when I can, but drive my regular car normally.

Another question: I'm not the sharpest spoon in the drawer, but I don't think I am a complete idiot either (although that is up for debate depending on who you ask!) I also have VERY limited tools at this point and I live in an apartment complex without really easy access to a garage with tools in it. With that in mind, what would be the best way to start to get some knowledge on basic auto mechanics? Is there a book that I could look things up in? Are there old schematics or something like that, that would help me locate and describe the easiest way to replace/fis a broken part?

Again, I'm not looking to make this into a parade or show car, just something that isn't an eye sore (and it really isn't all that bad right now, and I know it already runs, just not sure how flawless it is) and something that would be fun to take a Sunday drive in the mountains in. Not to mention the ability to (someday) make it look nicer and keep it looking original and pass it down to my kids someday.

Thanks for the suggestions already. Lots to think about/consider.

Very helpful!
 
Emmo said:
If your all thumbs when it comes to restoration you might check with your local high school auto shop instructor or if you have a local trade school you could get some guidence or help from them.
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I actually thought about that. I was talking to my old man about that and he said he had considered it when we owned it but that there was a long waiting list. Apparently, there was a community college near our house that would take cars and rebuild/repair things on them and then give them back to you but you had a line of people ahead of you that were waiting to have their car worked on.

If I can get ahold of it, I don't really care how long it would take to get into a program like that. I would just hope that I could keep it mobile at the very least until they could get their hands on it.

Has anyone done this before?
 
Car restoration almost always costs more than you think it will. The best thing about old cars is their much simpler than they are today, so you should be able to get by with limited knowledge and the Internet as a guide. I've heard of shops that rent space for you to use. You pay by the hour and they have all the tools and everything you need. Good luck.
 
Try and locate a Chilton's manual for your car. Hopefully it will still be available. They are great manuals with step by step instructions for repair.

You might try cruising Ebay and see if one turns up there. Maybe you will get lucky and find the genuine shop repair manuals (there are always manuals for my Falcon, so chances are good).

Your local library might have a Chilton's also.

Get on the 'net and look for your particular make / model. There are car clubs and such all over that are an invaluable source of info. (kinda like CP here)

Good luck!
 
I used to have a few Cadillacs in my day. I had two 1970 DeVille convertibles and a 1972 Fleetwood 75 limousine.

I could post for hours on this subject but the first question is:

Do you have a garage to store it in? If so, GREAT, if not, a car like that which you use for fun and special occasions will cause you more problems that it's worth if you leave it outside. Brake lines and fuel lines will rot out and will only last a few years even if you replace them. Brakes and exhaust work on those cars is easy as is most routine engine work, there's plenty of room in that engine compartment!! :p Steering boxes are prone to leaking but it's an easy fix. The Rochester Quadrajet carburetors can be tricky but if you find someone who knows what they're doing, they're not too tough to get them working properly.

I've rebuilt engines and transmissions (well, not the actual machine shop work for the engine rebuilds but pretty much everything else) and it's fun but I've come to the conclusion that it's best to buy something that someone else is already upside down on :p (they've got more money into it than it's worth) or find a nice low mileage car of what you're looking for that's in nice shape.

The 1965 - 1970 Cadillacs were all pretty much the same (same chassis & frames, etc.) and while they upped the cubic inches of the engines from 429 to 472 in 1968, the engines are pretty much the same right up until 1979. My 1970 engine with a 10:1 compression ratio ran fine but it needed to run on higher octane. In 1972, they dropped the compression ratio and they run fine on regular.

Those big Cadillac engines run hot and always seem to warp the exhaust manifolds so I used to have lots of problems with exhuast leaks between the exhaust manifolds and the cylinder heads.

The TurboHydromatic 400 transmissions in those cars are virtually indestructible and rebuilding them is not as pricey as most front wheel drive cars these days. That transmission is one of the best transmissions GM ever made. I think they came out with it in 1965. The rear ends essentially NEVER give you troubles.

The frames on those 1965 to 1970 Cadillacs were very prone to rusting out so be sure to check that on that car if you're thinking about buying it. Both of my 1970 DeVilles had frame rot. Frame rot is not as serious as your think, a good welding shop can fix that for a reasonable price so long as it is not extensive.

The bottoms of the front fenders always rot out and the rear quarters will rot up as well. Repair panels are readily available but you should look into how extensive the rust/rot is before you decide to buy the car. This will depend on how much time this car has spent stored outside for the last 39 years.

Parts for those old Cadillacs aren't that hard to find, certainlly easier that the Series III Jaguar XJ6's (1980 - 1987) that I screw around with. You might want to look into joining the Cadillac/LaSalle club and start getting their monthly magazine. I used to be a member of that when I was into the Cadillacs but I moved on to the Jaguars about seven years ago.

As AVB said, interior work can get pricey and finding the original material can be difficult. I found a place in Oregon that has just about all the proper upholstery you'd ever need for not an outragerous price.

Is this car a Fleetwood 60 Special (with the little foot rests in the rear seating area) or a Sedan DeVille? The Fleetwood 60's are very nice cars and were a higher model than the Sedan DeVilles and are a more desireable car for the Cadillac buff.

I've bored you enough for now. If you want to know more, you and I should probably talk on the phone.
 
My 1972 Fleetwood 75 looked very similar to this one. The 1971 - 1976 Cadillacs were pretty much all the same with minor changes to the grilles and bumpers every year. This is a photo of a 1974:

313.jpg
 
coventrycat86 said:
My 1972 Fleetwood 75 looked very similar to this one. The 1971 - 1976 Cadillacs were pretty much all the same with minor changes to the grilles and bumpers every year. This is a photo of a 1974:

313.jpg

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ah the memories, my great uncle had one of those caddies when they moved to florida in the '80's. we use to pile into it when we visited my cousins, there had to be 12 of us in the back with room to spare! thanks for the memory jogging Bill...too bad my great uncle passed a few years back, and my great aunt sold the car for a few hundred :(
 
It would make a hell of a taxi in Cuba......and you could get some good seegars at the same time :laugh:
 
I've restored a few cars and like you I knew very little when I started out. If you want to restore the car to a state that it looks nice and runs well it's not that expensive if you do everything yourself and it's pretty easy to do. In all my cars the only work I didn't do myself was the machine work on the block and paint. Most of the body work you can do yourself but you'll have to have the shop straighten out the panels(which is harder than you think) and smooth everything out so that will add to the cost of a paint job. Now... If you want to go all out on the restoration it will take all your weekends and a good amount of time after work for 1-2 years and way more money than you originally planned.

Either way it's going to take more time and money than you ever plan for. Also, odds are you are either going to get really into it and do much more than you planned to lose interest 1/4 of the way
through and sell it for nowhere near the amount you put into it.
 
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