DAVIDOFF AND OPUS X FACE-OFF

[Herfin Bigdog]

Carlos Fuente told Widmayer that despite the enormous (unmet) demand for Fuente cigars in the U.S., he does have his eye on other markets: “We don’t want to grow by more than two or three percent a year . . . since that is the only way we can still guarantee the quality. But we’ll see what we can do about Europe."

Instead of targeting the U.S. with that 2-3 % increase of cigars, he wants to branch out to Europe.

Hey Carlos,

If it wasn't for the cigar lovers in the United States, you wouldn't be where you are today, creating an artificial demand for your cigars. GREAT way to thank your loyal fans by saying "F#%& YOU America! I'm going to increase cigar production but not sell the cigars to you."

Just another reason not to buy your product.

For the full story on the results of the face off:
http://www.cigarcyclopedia.com/news/news.p...rnal&id=731

 

[junkman_56]

Dude, chill out :0
Have a cigar and a drink...

And please don't buy anymore of those nasty Fuente cigars.
(It's more for me :laugh: )

 

[IgwanaRob]

 

[Krautle87]

I'm as obnoxiously patriotic and Americo-centric as the next guy (okay, maybe ALOT more obnoxiously patriotic than the next guy,) but I don't blame him for wanting to branch out into other markets.

By expanding into Europe and competing directly with Cubans on a legitimate playing field, Fuente can bolster their reputation both abroad and here in the U.S..

 

[Herfin Bigdog]

Dude, chill out :0
Have a cigar and a drink...

And please don't buy anymore of those nasty Fuente cigars.
(It's more for me :laugh: )

Bubba, you can have my share. I will not buy any Fuente products on principle.

I don't agree with Fuente on how they handled certain actions. When United Tobacco made a cigar called "Series X", Fuente issued a cease and desist order to Oliva Cigars. The Series X was made in the Oliva factory. The letter was sent because Fuente felt that there was a copyright infringement issue over a letter of the alphabet. Sorry, but I think that's B.S.

For the details, this is what was posted at Club Stogie by Mike Banks (Mr. Bundles) http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9013

I think it was a shitty thing to do.

Ashton Cigars, a Fuente affiliated company took Tabacalera JEM to court over their original name, "Ash Cigars". They sued Tabacalera JEM over use of the word "Ash" in their name.

Another shitty thing to do to fellow cigar maker.

I donated my Carlos Fuente, autographed Opus X hat and 15 various Fuente cigars at a fund raiser raffle two years ago.

 

[moki]

I don't agree with Fuente on how they handled certain actions. When United Tobacco made a cigar called "Series X", Fuente issued a cease and desist order to Oliva Cigars. The Series X was made in the Oliva factory. The letter was sent because Fuente felt that there was a copyright infringement issue over a letter of the alphabet. Sorry, but I think that's B.S.

It is BS... what you stated is not accurate. The issue has nothing to do with copyright infringement, it has to do with trademark infringement and brand dilution. Fuente has been selling "Series X" (both the word and the letter, not just the letter) branded cigars for some time.

Someone else coming out with a "Series X" cigar is going to create confusion in the marketplace... and that's why trademarks exist in the first place, to prevent things like this.

I think it was a shitty thing to do.

Fuente should not defend their trademarks? Do you know the legal implications of adopting the policy you're advocating?

Anyway, I think the idea of being pissed off about Fuente expanding by 2-3% in Europe... assuming that's what happens, and it wasn't just said as a nicety for the European-oriented magazine... I don't see that as anything to get upset over.

And since you believe that the only reason their cigars sell at all is because of the embargo, then you by definition would believe that their cigars would fail horribly in Europe and elsewhere. So you should be happy they are expanding into a market that you believe will reject them.

 

[AngryFishH]

Anyone who is upset at Fuente and needs to get rid of some AF cigars in their humidor, PM me and I can help you with the problem.

 

[ggiese]

Oh, geez... It's our non-expert expert again... :laugh:

Do we gotta boycott the JC Newman cigars too?? ??? That would really suck - 'cause I really like the Cuesta Rey Stanford's Cameroon Reserves and Diamond Crown Maximus...


But, Hey - we can always substitute Astral's for Fuente product. I hear they're great cigars!!!

 

[IgwanaRob]

God bless the internets - we'd be so ignorant of how clueless some of our fellow citizens truly are without them!

 

[jabba]

GREAT way to thank your loyal fans by saying "F#%& YOU America! I'm going to increase cigar production but not sell the cigars to you."

Maybe it's just me, but I never have a difficult time finding Fuente products when I visit the US.

 

[CoventryCat86]

I don't agree with Fuente on how they handled certain actions. When United Tobacco made a cigar called "Series X", Fuente issued a cease and desist order to Oliva Cigars. The Series X was made in the Oliva factory. The letter was sent because Fuente felt that there was a copyright infringement issue over a letter of the alphabet. Sorry, but I think that's B.S.

It is BS... what you stated is not accurate. The issue has nothing to do with copyright infringement, it has to do with trademark infringement and brand dilution. Fuente has been selling "Series X" (both the word and the letter, not just the letter) branded cigars for some time.

Someone else coming out with a "Series X" cigar is going to create confusion in the marketplace... and that's why trademarks exist in the first place, to prevent things like this.

I think it was a shitty thing to do.

Fuente should not defend their trademarks? Do you know the legal implications of adopting the policy you're advocating?

Anyway, I think the idea of being pissed off about Fuente expanding by 2-3% in Europe... assuming that's what happens, and it wasn't just said as a nicety for the European-oriented magazine... I don't see that as anything to get upset over.

And since you believe that the only reason their cigars sell at all is because of the embargo, then you by definition would believe that their cigars would fail horribly in Europe and elsewhere. So you should be happy they are expanding into a market that you believe will reject them.

It's no use Andrew. Trying to reason with unreasonable people is like trying to teach a pig how to bark, it just frustrates you and pisses off the pig.

 

[Dave]

The only problem I have with fuente is that their red band stuff is more difficult to get. Well no, I lied, there's another problem I have, the Ashton Line is also a bit too expensive imo.

Other than that, its just a company trying to hold on to its market share like any other company out there. Expanding its market share too fast would eventually lead to a drop off not in quality rather but in interest from the consumer. They've already got a strong foothold in the U.S., so why jeopardize whats already a good thing by changing up some lucrative business formula that works in an already existing market? Creating a foothold in Europe will only be benefitial to Fuente Cigars, although I wonder how the tobacco tax will affect sales over there.

 

[Herfin Bigdog]

I don't agree with Fuente on how they handled certain actions. When United Tobacco made a cigar called "Series X", Fuente issued a cease and desist order to Oliva Cigars. The Series X was made in the Oliva factory. The letter was sent because Fuente felt that there was a copyright infringement issue over a letter of the alphabet. Sorry, but I think that's B.S.

It is BS... what you stated is not accurate. The issue has nothing to do with copyright infringement, it has to do with trademark infringement and brand dilution. Fuente has been selling "Series X" (both the word and the letter, not just the letter) branded cigars for some time.

Someone else coming out with a "Series X" cigar is going to create confusion in the marketplace... and that's why trademarks exist in the first place, to prevent things like this.

I think it was a shitty thing to do.

Fuente should not defend their trademarks? Do you know the legal implications of adopting the policy you're advocating?

Anyway, I think the idea of being pissed off about Fuente expanding by 2-3% in Europe... assuming that's what happens, and it wasn't just said as a nicety for the European-oriented magazine... I don't see that as anything to get upset over.

And since you believe that the only reason their cigars sell at all is because of the embargo, then you by definition would believe that their cigars would fail horribly in Europe and elsewhere. So you should be happy they are expanding into a market that you believe will reject them.

Moki,

As to the first, I stand corrected. I was unaware that Fuente had a Series X line of cigars. It is obvious that the source where I got the information was inaccurate. I apologize to the Fuente Family.

As to the second, don't read something into what I wrote that wasn't there to begin with. Had I know about the Series X line, that example would not have been posted. Of COURSE they have a right to defend their trademark.

However, Ashton Cigars vs. Ash Cigars would have still been posted as to the pettiness of the legal action. Don't tell me that Ashton has a line called "Ash Cigars". Confusing "Ashton" cigars with "Ash" cigars??? THAT's BS.

As far as expanding to Europe instead of in the US and my believing that they will fail? Bull Shit! That has nothing to do with my arguement. I never said anything about whether or not they will fail. If you read what I wrote and choose to interpret it that way... your interpretation is way off base. If you want my original point, read the first post again.

Interpretation is subjective. You can interpret it your way. I choose to interpret it in the way that I stated in the first post. But don't extrapolate meaning from what I wrote when it wasn't there to begin with.

And what's with the mentions of the embargo? Where did I say anything about the embargo? Not once did I mention the embargo. Again, don't read more into what was written than is actually there.

 

[grateful1]

Overview of Trademark Law

"The term “dilution” means the lessening of the capacity of a famous mark to identify and distinguish goods or services, regardless of the presence or absence of—
(1) competition between the owner of the famous mark and other parties, or
(2) likelihood of confusion, mistake, or deception. " from linky

The above are some reasons why Fuente and Ashton did what they did. It's to protect their market and idea.

As far as increasing growth elsewhere...if it affects the market in the US - the Fuente's will be first to hear about it - in their bottom line!

 

[anvil]

Dude, chill out :0
Have a cigar and a drink...

And please don't buy anymore of those nasty Fuente cigars.
(It's more for me :laugh: )

Bubba, you can have my share. I will not buy any Fuente products on principle.

I don't agree with Fuente on how they handled certain actions. When United Tobacco made a cigar called "Series X", Fuente issued a cease and desist order to Oliva Cigars. The Series X was made in the Oliva factory. The letter was sent because Fuente felt that there was a copyright infringement issue over a letter of the alphabet. Sorry, but I think that's B.S.

For the details, this is what was posted at Club Stogie by Mike Banks (Mr. Bundles) http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9013

I think it was a shitty thing to do.

Ashton Cigars, a Fuente affiliated company took Tabacalera JEM to court over their original name, "Ash Cigars". They sued Tabacalera JEM over use of the word "Ash" in their name.

Another shitty thing to do to fellow cigar maker.

I donated my Carlos Fuente, autographed Opus X hat and 15 various Fuente cigars at a fund raiser raffle two years ago.

After reading this I wondered if you boycotted any other brands that destroy small company's,ie Mc Donalds,Budwiser,Shell and every other large petrol company in our fine friendly competitive world.

 

[FlyFish]

Like the way he does business or don't (I don"t BTW), you have to admit they have created a market for themselves, and you have to admit the quality of the product they sell. They positioned the Opus X line right as the boom was starting and marketed it to the point where if you were being trendy you just HAD to have some. Those cigars aren't quite as hard to get as before since the boom smokers went away and many regulars like myself admitted one day that we just don't like them proportionally to the pricetag. It is a well-made cigar (when they burn right) but I just don't like the taste.

You can use the examples mentioned in posts above to critisize the business model and protectionism all you want...there was also a childish little spat between F/N and another cigar board recently, F/N's ridiculously over-zealous handling of which being one of the reasons why I don't hang at CF anymore (that'll show 'em )...but that business model has been remarkably sucessful for them.

Like it or not they created the niche for these silly limited releases which guys here and on other boards line up like lemmings on the cliff to go after...and good for them. There is a collectors market out there and they are supplying it...all the while saying that these 60 dollar cigars are for smokeing, LOL. Genious! I wonder what the profit margin is on those DC Anniversary humidors. Better than 8-5-8's I'd imagine.

So yes, I am a "hater", but I am a cigar consumer first, so you won't hear me huffily saying I'll never buy Fuente product. That doesn't hurt them, it just hurts me. I'll buy the Hemingway line cigars until they stop making them.

If he wants to send product to Europe, good for him, I'm sure he'll create some new and exciting blend for the followers here to chase after and the Europeans will be happy........as soon as the boxes are ready.

 

[Black Plague]

If Fuente-Newman did sue over the "Ash" name, then that is VERY shitty, considering that OpusX almost got kicked off the market early on because Rothschild-Mondavi-owned "Opus One" winery sued them for trademark infringement.

 

[Lemon]

Expanding to Europe? :0 That would be great.

 

[The Volusianator]

That's funny as hell!