• Hi Guest - Come check out all of the new CP Merch Shop! Now you can support CigarPass buy purchasing hats, apparel, and more...
    Click here to visit! here...

DC Sniper

Rod said:
Again today, this makes 13 total. This peice of sh*t must be living in holes in the woods or something. I think it's time to bring in the military and smoke out this peice of trash...
Clearing away the remaining tatters of what's left of the Posse Comitatus Act and allowing the military to operate as law enforcement against American citizens would be a very bad idea, I think; but your essential concept is sound.

We need throngs of armed citizens, just going about their regular business wherever the sniper might strike--police are too scarce, too expensive, too obvious, and too incompetent. The next time a gunshot is heard, a dozen people need to instantly start converging on the area from which it was heard to come. If he shoots again, he'll pinpoint his position and be overwhelmed immediately thereafter; if he doesn't, he'll either be forced to make a conspicuous escape or be eventually rooted out.

(More likely, of course, if it becomes known that citizens are armed, the sniper will be smart enough to cease operations in Washington--and either retire or set up shop somewhere else people aren't allowed to be armed, like Chicago or California.)

The government can't protect us--it has never been able to. The current crisis serves only to make people wonder a little more consciously exactly what they're paying police for. The only people who can protect us are ourselves. This is a problem for the citizen militia, not for the police or the standing army.

The government won't permit this, of course, for two reasons. First, where citizens commonly go armed, crime is nearly unheard of, making law enforcement an expensive irrelevancy; second, if the sniper is taken down by ordinary citizens after the clueless police have taken their best shot, that irrelevancy will become searingly obvious even to Democrats and Republicans.
 
Okay then, Barak. Just checking. Backing slowly to the door. Nothing to be alarmed about. No, no, I can let myself out, stay seated, no problems, everything's juuust fine. It's all right, just turning the knob here, nothing freaky, slow deep breaths. Just going for a little walk, I'll be back, really, just stay calm, bye bye. Bye bye.SLAM!!!
NA :D
 
You know, I spend time on many different boards. And it seams like there is always at least one anti-everything-nut who rambles on at the very mention of Governement or Military or whatever about how awfull things are here in the good ole USofA.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but frankly, I am sick of reading it. We all know how certain people feel about the government we have, it doesn't need to be regurgitated at every turn. I feel very strongly about a few things myself, and if someone asks my oppinion I will be happy to give it to them, but I see no reason to repeatedly jam my oppinions down their throat, regardless of how elequently I package it.

So I would emplore upon all of us, that if you harbor deep seeted controversial views on things that are not cigar related, can we at least try to be cival and not make an issue out of it in every single thread. And if you really feel the need to Bash the Government we live under, can you have the compassion for your fellow man to do so from outside of the protection of the Government you so despise? :angry:
 
SamClemmons said:
Okay then, Barak. Just checking. Backing slowly to the door. Nothing to be alarmed about. No, no, I can let myself out, stay seated, no problems, everything's juuust fine. It's all right, just turning the knob here, nothing freaky, slow deep breaths. Just going for a little walk, I'll be back, really, just stay calm, bye bye. Bye bye.SLAM!!!
NA :D
Sammy brother, you are a trip. :D :p :thumbs:
 
Naw, PB, he's got a right to say what he believes just like I have the right to point at the side of my head with my index finger and while circling my ear with it, make a funny humming whistle sound.
NA :p
 
SamClemmons said:
Okay then, Barak. Just checking. Backing slowly to the door. Nothing to be alarmed about. No, no, I can let myself out, stay seated, no problems, everything's juuust fine. It's all right, just turning the knob here, nothing freaky, slow deep breaths. Just going for a little walk, I'll be back, really, just stay calm, bye bye. Bye bye.SLAM!!!
NA :D
[grin]

That's pretty good.

Do I really sound that whacked out?
Nah, I'm not dangerous--at least, not physically dangerous. Probably not even if you work for the government: I'm a Mennonite, you see. Not a practicing one, really, just ethnic, but still a bit too pacifistic to pick up a gun and start blasting folks.

Strong opinions, though? Sure, I've got plenty. More than enough. Too many, even--here, have a few, on me!
 
PuroBrat said:
You know, I spend time on many different boards. And it seams like there is always at least one anti-everything-nut who rambles on at the very mention of Governement or Military or whatever about how awfull things are here in the good ole USofA.
Really? One on every board? Gee...I didn't know we were doing that well. What an encouragement!

I feel very strongly about a few things myself, and if someone asks my oppinion I will be happy to give it to them, but I see no reason to repeatedly jam my oppinions down their throat, regardless of how elequently I package it.
Hmm...what do you mean by jamming opinions down throats? I'm not pressuring you to agree with me, so that can't be it. I'm completely incapable of compelling you to entertain or even read my posts, so that can't be it either. All I'm doing is making them available for your voluntary consumption, should you decide to do so...is that what you mean by jamming them down your throat? (Note: being autistic, I sometimes inadvertently create the impression of sarcasm. In case that happens here, I'm not being sarcastic; I'm asking a perfectly serious question.)

So I would emplore upon all of us, that if you harbor deep seeted controversial views on things that are not cigar related, can we at least try to be cival and not make an issue out of it in every single thread.
That's why I'm addressing this in The Lobby (which specifically prohibits cigar-related discussion) rather than somewhere else. And I'm trying to be civil, I really am; I wasn't aware that I had failed.

And if you really feel the need to Bash the Government we live under, can you have the compassion for your fellow man to do so from outside of the protection of the Government you so despise?
After rejecting a number of possible responses to this (in the interest of continued civility, I mean), here's the only thing I'm left with: you and I see things amazingly differently.

Government protection? What government protection? Did you happen to catch the press conference a few minutes ago from Virginia? Did that sound like a government that's capable of protecting anything?

If you're talking about the protection of free speech, I've got to point out that that is not government protection: that's Constitutional protection against government repression.

And it doesn't apply here anyway. Rod is not the government, he's a private entity operating in a private capacity. I have no right to free speech here; all the Constitution says is that Congress shall make no law abridging it. If Rod tells me to shut up or bans me from the board, that's not Congress, that's the same as a private individual saying that certain subjects or certain people are not welcome in his private dwelling. Government doesn't enter into it--at least, not yet.

Sorry for all the italics; I tend to use italics when I get amazed.
 
SamClemmons said:
Uh...Barak...brother...tell me your kidding. It's a joke, right? Please let your post be a joke. LOL
NA :0
Okay, you're right. I don't know if I'm quite that cynical. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it went down that way, but I'm not confident enough in even the corruption of the government to stake my reputation on a prediction like that.

Let's just wait and see together, shall we? One way or another, it can't go on forever.
 
Hey, far be it from me to say you HAVE to shut up. I was meerly stating that you get on my nerves and I have about worn thin with the repeated long winded, Anti Government (I say Love it or Leave it, but don't slam it) posts that seam to crop up in almost every worthwhile thread. Thereby cheapening them down to a level of a supermarket tabloid rather than actual valuable conversation. That's all I was saying. ???
 
Well, the jackbooted thing was little much and the gov whacking an innocent guy and then covering up further shootings was bit much more, and well...arming the citizenry was waaaay over the top. I mean, have you taken a good look at the citizenry lately?? Hmmmm? Arming throngs of my fellow Americans is a waaaay scary idea, that is, if you don't mind me saying so. Not to mention, (too late I mentioned it) nodody's even gotten a good look at this freak and I don't think that sending out Billy Bob and Bobby Joe and the rest of the weekend warriors to take him out is in the best interest of anyone. And YES, it sounds NUTS! Completely, irrevocably, absolutely wah-wah.
I'm not making light of this whole sniper thing, I live here and want this guy taken down hard by any means necessary short of arming the local gab club at JD's Beauty Salon and Pancake House. Let's leave it to the professionals.
Anyway, everybody has to believe in something and I believe I'll have a Mille Fleur and stay away from the windows.
NA :)
 
PuroBrat said:
Hey, far be it from me to say you HAVE to shut up. I was meerly stating that you get on my nerves
That's okay; you're in good company. I get on a lot of people's nerves. It's the only thing I was ever any good at. :)

I say Love it or Leave it, but don't slam it
That's essentially a prohibition of dissent, much as they have in China and North Korea, right? Is that what you intended to say?

And why should I leave? This is my country: let the government leave!

I have about worn thin with the repeated long winded, Anti Government posts that seam to crop up in almost every worthwhile thread. Thereby cheapening them down to a level of a supermarket tabloid rather than actual valuable conversation.

Two things. One's a secret, one's just common sense.

First, the common sense: I'll only be long-winded for a limited time. I can't spend my whole life on Cigar Pass, so once I've completely vomited forth my major point (or two--my kind never has very many, as you've probably noticed), I'll soon get sick of repeating myself, and begin simply referring briefly to what I've already said in depth.

Second, the secret: the way to get me to shut up and go away is to ignore me. (You never heard it from me.) I'm looking for an argument--not to be disruptive (as is the case in some places), but to exercise my mind. I've only been at this libertarian thing for five years or so, so I'm still a baby and there are still some things I haven't thought about. I find smart people all over the Internet, and arguing with them brings up elements I haven't considered, which expands my mind and makes me a better person and all that rot. So if I can't find a smart person to argue with here on Cigar Pass, I'll eventually go pester the Self-Defense/Concealed-Carry people, or the General Aviation people, or the Messianic Jewish people, or the Larry Niven fan club, or somebody else.
 
Barak said:
the way to get me to shut up and go away is to ignore me.
I am sure you will agree that I have, for the most part, done just that for the entire time you have been here. I had typed much more here, but am convinced that it would only result in an even larger volume of Quote Boxes followed by even more useless drivel. So for the time being I will sit back and STFU. ???
 
SamClemmons said:
Well, the jackbooted thing was little much
Ah, I see. I'm sorry; I should have explained. It's a term of art in some of the circles I inhabit: JBT stands for "jackbooted thug" and refers to people working for government organizations that do things like stomp kittens to death as a threat and jack pregnant wives up against walls and make them miscarry (BATF), burn dozens of people to death in their church and shoot nursing mothers in the face (FBI), shove automatic weapons in the faces of terrified children (INS), order a Mexican kid to lie on his face on the floor and then, when he does, shoot him in the back with a 12ga shotgun (LAPD, if I remember correctly)--stuff like that. I could go on about the DEA and the EPA and HUD and even the USDA, for cripe's sake, but I expect you get the gist.

and the gov whacking an innocent guy and then covering up further shootings was bit much more
It's certainly been done before, and it's hard to believe it'll never happen again; but you're right: maybe not in this case.

and well...arming the citizenry was waaaay over the top. I mean, have you taken a good look at the citizenry lately?? Hmmmm?
There may be a misunderstanding here. I didn't say what we needed was to arm the citizenry; I said what we needed was an armed citizenry.

If you'd like to have a verrry short conversation with me at some point, ask me what I think the legitimate functions of government are. I guarantee you that buying guns for anybody won't be part of the list.

But the thing that prevents us from having an armed citizenry, at least up there in VA and DC and MD where the sniper's working, is not the fact that the government won't buy people guns, but the fact that the government promises to send people to prison if it finds them carrying guns they bought for themselves. In other words, the government in that area, as well as in Chicago and California and Ohio and a number of other places (notably excepting such spots as Florida and Texas, which the sniper coincidentally did not choose) has put up a notional billboard proclaiming:

SNIPE WITH US! WE GUARANTEE A LARGE SUPPLY OF UNARMED, HELPLESS VICTIMS FOR YOUR SHOOTING CONVENIENCE!

(Namely you, it sounds like.)

It's a really bad idea for the government to go buying people guns, but it's an at least equally bad idea for it to prevent them from procuring and carrying their own. If the government would just withdraw from the picture, the free market would take care of this sniper just fine.

And YES, it sounds NUTS! Completely, irrevocably, absolutely wah-wah.
Some folks (I'm not saying you're one) feel more comfortable trusting Big Brother to take care of them than contemplating the trouble it would require to take care of themselves.

Other people, of course, are asking, "I give Big Brother half of my income and let him trample almost every single one of the Bill Of Rights in exchange for keeping me safe; when is he going to start taking care of me? One guy with a rifle, and all of a sudden he's clueless?"

Anyway, everybody has to believe in something and I believe I'll have a Mille Fleur and stay away from the windows.
What's a Mille Fleur (Thousand Flowers in French?)? A cigar? (We haven't got the French making cigars now, have we?)
 
Whew! Try as I might to stay out of this I can no longer hold myself back. ??? Anyone that might be offened by a strong opinions should probably skip this post.

First: I believe in this country and would do anything in my power to protect it from harm, from both outside and inside. That disclaimer out of the way here goes.

To believe that our government would "control " a situation to the best of their abilities is a pratical view. One need only look at past pratices all over the world and in our own country. Examples? Pick any country in the last 30 years that was unfriendly to ours and the leader disapeared, was overthrown, so forth and a friendly one took his place. Not a far stretch as the government has admitted to several. Inside our borders, Ruby Ridge,
Waco, Wounded Knee. Do I think that our government would take out a private citizen to control an out of hand sitiuation? In a heart beat. Do I think that they are wrong for doing so.... That would depend on your view of "wrong". Does the value of one out weigh the value of many and the reverse. Not a choice I ever want to make. But it is a choice all of us that have voted have made. It is our elected officals that choose who our police chief is, our generals, the directors of our agencies.

Now, as for your police departments protecting you. The average responce time of police departments in small comunities is 11 min, large cities 20 min or longer. Most times in the cities your on hold longer than 20 min. Anything that is going to happen to you is over before they get there. If you wish to protect yourself and your love ones arming yourself is the only option. Sure, the police will do thier best to catch the criminal and lock them up. Save your life, not a chance. The police are a reactive force, they respond after the crime has been commited. Sure they will try to protect you from the person that robbed or murdered your neighbor. The ONLY one that can protect you while the crime is being commited is YOU. It is a choice that each one of us must make for ourself. If your going to arm yourself, take classes to learn how to use the weapon. If you don't know how you'll only prove the gun control advocates right when the criminal takes your gun from you and uses it against you.

Now if you don't agree with my views, fine. Your welcome to post yours. If you want to make it personal, my email in in the profile, but keep the personal stuff of the BB. If your ever in trouble and I'm around fear not, I'll be the one with the Sig 40 in the shoulder holster and the concealed carry permit in my wallet.



Wascal
 
Oooookay. Now you don't just sound nuts. Partagas Mille Fleur/cigar. For the record, I don't need anyone to protect me and I think our government does an incredibly thankless job. Don't need any more of your rhetoric, I know a rose when I see one.
NA
 
PuroBrat said:
I am sure you will agree that I have, for the most part, done just that for the entire time you have been here.
Sure...but it's tough, isn't it? I know; I've had to do the same thing to people on occasion, and it's powerfully tempting to leap in and just take one good swipe--just one.

Always counterproductive, though.

I salute you in your past successes and wish you good fortune in the future... :)

I had typed much more here, but am convinced that it would only result in an even larger volume of Quote Boxes followed by even more useless drivel.
You're probably right.

So for the time being I will sit back and STFU.
Your choice, brother. But when the time being is over, if I'm still around, feel free to jump in and point out stuff I've missed or misunderstood. I promise I won't be nasty or mean. I'm not trying to make people angry or ridicule them; I'm trying to make people (mostly me, I admit, but anyone else who's interested too) smarter.
 
SamClemmons said:
Oooookay. Now you don't just sound nuts.
Oooh--I would love for you to finish that thought. I don't just sound nuts, now I...? The suspense is killing me.

Partagas Mille Fleur/cigar.
Ah. Thanks for that. I'm a pretty light smoker, of...ah...around a year's experience, I guess, so I haven't gotten around to everything yet.

(Why would Partagas give a cigar a French name? Wait--is that Spanish? No--Spanish would be "mil flor," right? It's been a long time since high school; I don't really remember my Spanish, and the closest I've ever been to French is that my wife teaches it in college--but when she gets home she doesn't want to talk about it.)

So far the only Partagas cigar I've tried is their Black Label, and I love it. It's my second favorite in the Clasico size, behind the Padron 5000 Maduro. Oops, but we're not supposed to talk cigars in the Lobby; sorry.

For the record, I don't need anyone to protect me
Good for you!

and I think our government does an incredibly thankless job.
Something else we agree on. Deer ticks and horseflies and leeches and other parasites do incredibly thankless jobs too, because it's really tough to find somebody who thinks a parasite should be thanked.

Don't need any more of your rhetoric, I know a rose when I see one.
I'm not quite smart enough to get that one; if it was meant to be a clever witticism, then I apologize. (It's never as good if you have to explain it.)

My guess, though, is that your gist is that you're not going to talk to me anymore. Is that right?

(it's a trick question: you don't have to answer)
 
Of course I'll talk to you, just not about OUR government. I gave the best years of my life in service to my country and would fight to the death your right to denigrate it using the very freedoms it guarantees you. That doesn't mean I like hearing mealymouthed garbage being said about it. So, if you wanna be friendly, ease up. And lose the quote boxes, I'm quite capable of following your train of thought as it pertains to what I have said.
NA
 
Barak said:
I promise I won't be nasty or mean. I'm not trying to make people angry or ridicule them...
Barak, I don't believe that anyone here really wants you to leave. I want you here because, well, you bring new and interesting thoughts to many discussions. The problem is most likely in your approach. It's not bad, but probably better suited for a late-evening news show, like The O'Reilly Factor, where people are encouraged to be determined to make their point in a short period of time. I am typically the same way, but I have started repeating something to myself every time I talk to one of my clients (car dealership personnel): "Be nice!". They are largely dishonest, selfish, and insensitive. That being said, they are still important to my survival in the workplace. So I choose to do the right thing (according to my Christian values) and work harder at seeing things their way. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised by their positive reactions. I do my best to see things from their perspective. Some of these customers I serve have a slash-and-burn approach. They end up running through dealerships and finance lenders every three months. They are incapable of maintaining a long-term relationship with their current method.

If you are finding that you need to find new message boards all the time, don't you think that finding a new tact would be something to consider? I like you, really, and admire your courage. You stick to something that is not easy to do in our current America. I would hate to see you burn yourself and everyone else out before we even got to know each other and our wide berth of ideas. ;)
 
IM thinking Barak,
That a perfect thing to do is to get you to show up to our Herf in Vegas then get you in a friendly headlock and give you a noogie or two untill you surrendered!:D

Yep- Im kidding but I do get a sense a kind of jovial and sophmoric humor.


Yeah debating and discussing different outlooks is good for a person when they are trying to make up thier minds on wich side of an issue they stand (in thier heart)

But getting personal and any bit of abusive is not tollerable here at all.
And those quote boxes give me a damn headache.

Now go and have a cigar, then come back afterwards.
Hb.
 
Top