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Do we need trader ratings?

O

other1

Cigarpassaholic. Mmm.. cigarpassahol.
Joined
May 1, 2004
Messages
1,788
Just a thought, brought on by some of the recent ugliness.

Perhaps we should start some sort of system for reviewing traders/passers on this board? Or perhaps at least start an official bad treader thread that only Rod/Dave can post too once it's been decided in a public discussion that someone deserves to be listed? Sounds like the 'official' list is kind of dead (CC can't get shuji on it), plus not everyone here checks it (since nobody seemed to realize GL was on it until the CW/HP guys came along to warn us).

Just a thought.. I'd be happy to help organize things.
 
An honorable idea Jason but I'm too sure of the value of it.

Look at the "Trader Comments" on CW and it looks just like eBay feedback, everybody is freakin' wonderful:

"Great trader"
"Would trade with again"
"Prompt payment"
"Fast shipment"
"Great packaging"
"One of (insert name of site here)'s BEST traders"

and so forth and so on......

Over 99% of the time, things work out well. In the cases where it doesn't, it doesn't take long at all for the jackoffs to have the ole spotlight directed on them.

Just ask Shuji & GameLover2004 :sign:

I've noticed that even before things get ugly in public, "word" gets around concerning scumbags like Shuji, etc. People like that are their own worst enemies. GameLover appeared to be doing okay here but WOW has he caused controversy on other boards. It's not easy to get banned from CW, cA, etc.
 
other1 said:
Just a thought, brought on by some of the recent ugliness.

Perhaps we should start some sort of system for reviewing traders/passers on this board? Or perhaps at least start an official bad treader thread that only Rod/Dave can post too once it's been decided in a public discussion that someone deserves to be listed? Sounds like the 'official' list is kind of dead (CC can't get shuji on it), plus not everyone here checks it (since nobody seemed to realize GL was on it until the CW/HP guys came along to warn us).

Just a thought.. I'd be happy to help organize things.
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I think trade comments ( i.e @ CW) are essentially worthless All they serve to do is to make it convenient to blow hot air up each other's arses.

I think the self moderating technique works very well and prevents backslapping fluff. The public outting of less than ethical traders ( i.e Shuji / Gamelover2004 ) serves a purpose, distasteful as it may be too some.

I suspect the true FOGs spend a good deal of time communicating their concerns about problems way before they become public.... ;)

Just MHO.
 
Well done Kirk :thumbs:
(That's "MilesMingusMonk" to those of you who may not know ;) )
 
From my POV, too often "being generous" becomes the criterion for classification as a "good trader."

If we agree on a 5-stick blinder, I send 5 sticks. If you want to send 10, let's agree on 10. This might make me less desirable to trade with in the eyes of some BOTL's.

Moki has numerours times been advertized as super generous. I think this is unfortunate, as he might be target be greedy folks. I ordered one of his Fuente DVDs and received only a DVD. I was more pleased with that transaction than had he included 10 Anejo Sharks.

Cheers,
Dixie
 
MilesMingusMonk said:
I suspect the true FOGs spend a good deal of time communicating their concerns about problems way before they become public.... ;)
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You my fine sir "get it". Your post was very well stated.
 
That's why the FOGs here resurface when questionable issues arise ;) They may not be tappin the keyboard and getting into every fray but believe me they're there lurkin.

............ and that my brother makes this the place to hang ;) Ratings are IMHO worthless and a waste.

Just my .02

BenjieV :D
 
dixieland_conjunction said:
Moki has numerours times been advertized as super generous. I think this is unfortunate, as he might be target be greedy folks. I ordered one of his Fuente DVDs and received only a DVD. I was more pleased with that transaction than had he included 10 Anejo Sharks.

Cheers,
Dixie
Click to expand...
I agree, Dixie. While I would have loved to get a stick with it, I only wanted to get the DVD. I received what was promised, in a very timely manner, that to me is a good trader. I think the members here spend more time looking out for each other. I like that.
 
I'll play the devil's advocate here.... Get ready















GO!








I see some of you as Hypocracy at its best :p

So... we don't need traders ratings? Why on earth do so many people deem it necessary to place this totally useless but self asserting "stuff" in the profile?

Traded with:
Bombed by:
Bombed:
Passes participated in:
etc, etc...blah, blah

Looks to me (and the newbs that take a peek) that you feel you need to validate your activity here...Naw, we don't have traders comments here...but LOOK! I've been trading and passing with this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person and this person. Aren't I great?



Just an observation. :D
 
I see what yer sayin' Horse but I think it's good for newer people to list who they've traded with or bombed or been bombed by when they are trying to build their reputation.

Then, once they get known I've noticed they usually shorten that list considerably when they update their profile.

I wouldn't conclude that people who put this information are trying to say "Look I'm great" but rather giving others a chance to see how active they've been. If someone is considering trading with Member X and their profile lists "Traded with Member Y" that someone can PM Member Y and say "Hey, how'd your trade with Member X REALLY go?"

Listing passes that someone has participated in is completely different from trader/seller/buyer comments. I like listing the passes I've participated in because someone who may be considering letting me in their pass can look back and particular passes and see just exactly what my puts and takes were. It certainlly makes it easier for someone to check my performance in previous passes. Allowing someone in a pass shouldn't be based on post count but rather on how they've handled themselves in previous passes.
 
I see both sides. A simple tag line in their profile, such as, "References available upon request" covers about everything.

A no rating system promotes active dialogue between traders :thumbs: A way of doing this without outing the person you are digging up info on is this: "Has anyone ever traded with a brother from Rio Rancho NM? Please PM me." Most traders here keep an active list of addies of people they have traded or passed with.

Also, if you have any doubts on weather this person is legit, tell them. Ask them for their name and address, and cross check it against the names on other lists. Have them send their end first. I mean there are a lot of different ways to get to the same point.

A traders section where a person's rating is tied to a poll. You can only vote once in polls. Also, no backslaps allowed for positive or neutral votes. All negative trading expieriences have to followed up with a post in the thread as to why it was a negative expierience. The one vote per person keeps people from really upping someones poll in one side or the other. Whatcha guys think?

Emo
 
I really don't like the rating or voting or whatever system either. First if its a one time only per person type thing, it doesn't seem like it would be as accurate or up to date at any one time as it could be. A guy could sit for months building up good ratings from everyone before getting involved in shenanigans with newbies that may be afraid to vote honestly about someone who has built up a good rating.

I agree compleatly with CC here on this. This is a cigar pass site, and what can require more trust from any of us then the proper handling of passes worth hundreds of dollars? Keep your previous passes in your profile and if anyone wants to see if you would be a good pass participant then it's all in the forums for anyone to look at all they want.

As far as trades and splits go, it's easy to be careful with people you don't know as well as you might like and word gets around if things don't look right with a particular individual. It all works out. Little dust up's over it are essential, inevitable, and not really a bad thing. Self policing works and a person dedicated to being a true BOTL will have no problems with it.
 
Ok, ok.. Clearly people aren't interested.

"Sorry I brought it up" comes to mind. :p
 
Totaly useless. Even on a different board where your trader ratings are supposed to be the final word almost nothing bad ever gets posted. By the time some one has f**kup enough to actually get a bad trader comment almost everyone on the board knows anyway.

Like was mentioned earlier, if you don't know just ask. :thumbs:
 
emodx said:
A way of doing this without outing the person you are digging up info on is this: "Has anyone ever traded with a brother from Rio Rancho NM? Please PM me."
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Emo, I'd be very careful about sending anything to Rio Ranch. I've heard there's a shady BOTL out that way. :0 ;) :D ROFLMAO!
 
other1 said:
Ok, ok.. Clearly people aren't interested.

"Sorry I brought it up" comes to mind. :p
Click to expand...
I don't believe that it was necessarily a bad idea. Such a system would be slower than whistle-blowers, but what if in the future we don't have people coming onto this board to view "train-wrecks" and "warn" us about them afterwards? What FOG on this board posted on the newbie pass about knowing of gamelover's alleged antics before those strangers came onto this board and began posting? As good as a lot of people are, even the most dedicated FOG can't possibly check everyone out. To me, you still have the same kind of problem no matter what. Perhaps a letter grade for everyone? You don't lose an "A" until you send a crappy box, send dry sticks, or outright stiff someone like gibu would do. :p ;) For each incident, and seriousness of a given incident, they would drop a letter grade or more, after a good debate thread of course and after given the opportunity to rectify the given problem.
 
Can someone who has been here for a long time let me know how much of a problem this really is?

In the few months that I have been around, I have found nothing but really great people here. To me, it seems like the typical knee jerk reaction to impliment a new law in town everytime there is a problem.

In my opinion, things are fine here the way they are. We already have a system in place here regarding newbies, and I think it works fine. Enforce the current rules, and these rare incidents will be kept to a minimum. Ask for references or something, or if in doubt, just say "sorry, I dont want you to participate in this......"

If we cant trust each other, than what kind of group do we have here? Let people have a chance to earn a good reputation, and lets enjoy each others company here.

JV
 
IMHO, The site has grown an amazing amount with tons of new members in just the last year or less. This incidents were even more rare before that boom, and with a couple or more big ones now allready in 2004, it really seems different around here then it used to. I agree though that things are fine and thats just the way things are. This is still a great place to hang out even if there are incidents a little more often.
 
I have not been around here for very long, but one of the reasons I am is because it seemed to me after reveiw of the site that there are many more trustworthy people here than on other sites. I can say that I never made a trade on any other site because of the unknown. But here it seems different and people with their ears up and eyes open help foster that feeling. The first big trade I had was a newbie trade with Phil just before he stopped being active. After having sent hundreds of bucks worth of cigars and not hearing from him for a while, I must say I was kind of nervous, but in the end he sent his side of the deal. But having rating system would, I think only tend to close the "club" rather than having the more open atmosphere that exists now. Having a bigger board means statistics will end up catching up here like at other places and there will be more numbers of bad traders rather than perhaps more liklihood. Thanks to all those who keep posting information about known offenders, you keep the feeling alive and well and hopefully reduce the chances of people getting pfcked.
 
I think that the fear of being put in the same category as Shuji and gamelover2004 will keep just about anybody in line :D

Therefore, who needs a rating system ;)
 
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