Dumb question of the week

[Frank_L]

Here goes: a) If I cut 1 inch off a Churchill, do I have a Toro ? b) Is a Torpedo a just a Toro with a taper?
What I'm really asking is whether there are any internal differences in the shapes - is the roller using the same blend and the same techinque and the only difference is the size? We've all noticed that different sizes within a brand can vary dramatically in taste, draw, smoke volume, etc.

 

[BigJake6904]

I'd assume with long-filler cigars, the complexity and flavor does in fact change with cigar length, and it is not only the ring gauge that will affect the flavors, etc. in a cigar.

 

[grateful1]

Here goes: a) If I cut 1 inch off a Churchill, do I have a Toro ?
No. You have a churchill with one inch off.

b) Is a Torpedo a just a Toro with a taper?
No. Tapper vs non-tapper

What I'm really asking is whether there are any internal differences in the shapes - is the roller using the same blend and the same techinque and the only difference is the size?
In regard to question a) - jake said it
In regard to quesiton b) - there's more filler and wrapper in the tapper of a Torpedo....the taste will be different, yet similar.

We've all noticed that different sizes within a brand can vary dramatically in taste, draw, smoke volume, etc.

 

[Brickhouse]

That's not a dumb question...I find it an interesting one. But one that may not be as easy to answer as you may think.

Here's what I mean:

If you cut off 1" of a Churchill do you have a Toro? No, you have a Churchill that lost an inch and is now the same size as a Toro.

Is a Torpedo just a Toro with a taper? No, it's the same blend rolled in order to have a tapered end. Most likely by one of the more skilled rollers in the factory. I think these vitolas are reserved for those with more experience, hence a better roll, and therefore possibly a better cigar....which usually leads to a higher price on those.

But that doesn't really get at your question does it?

Here's what I mean.....AFAIK, blend is blend. No matter the vitola, the blend is the same in a line.

So why do some vitolas of the same blend have different tastes? I think ring gauge and length have a lot to do with how a cigar starts, zones in, and finishes. All vitolas have their own way of starting, finding their zone, and finishing. There's a lot to how each person smokes each vitola that may have a factor in how each tastes. What I'm saying is that I smoke Lancero's a hell of a lot different than I smoke a Churchill....and that probably has a direct effect on the taste I get out of it.

I agree with BigJake in that some parts of a cigar change throughout. If you cut an inch off of a Churchill what you've just done is taken 1" of blend out of it.

Although, if it's the same ring gauge as the toro in that blend....are they going to taste the same....I'm pretty sure they'd be damn close.

Sorry if this confuses things more. I know what I mean, I just can't put it together in the best manner hehe.

Again this is just my opinion on the matter. I'll be interested to read some other replies.

 

[Not A Nice Person]

IMHO, there are three things at play here:

1. Ring gauge---both the percentage of wrapper to filler/binder and the slight differences in the composition of the filler necessitated by the change in diameter. A toro is usually, but not always, a slightly larger ring gauge than a churchill. Wrapper leaf, I'm told, accounts for about half a cigar's flavor profile, so even small changes in ring gauge will create noticeable changes in flavor.

2. Shape---a torpedo, pyramide, perfecto or figurado of the same line are all going to taste just a little bit different, particularly in terms of the total smoking experience, because of changes in smoke volume and concentration (and buildup of flavor) due to both the shape and the internal filler densities it creates. In particular, oils and tars tend to collect in the cap region of shaped cigars, causing them to gain more body/flavor relative to cylindrical rolls as they smoke down to toward the nub.

3. Maker---some cigar companies, perhaps most (I'm going by hearsay here) fiddle with the filler blend ratios for each vitola within a line, either to maintain a similar profile or to create a slightly different one. In some lines, a particular shape or size can actually be a significantly different "recipe" . . . the small figurado in 601's oscuro lineup is one such cigar.

~Boar

 

[Smokin'Sims]

2. Shape---a torpedo, pyramide, perfecto or figurado of the same line are all going to taste just a little bit different, particularly in terms of the total smoking experience, because of changes in smoke volume and concentration (and buildup of flavor) due to both the shape and the internal filler densities it creates. In particular, oils and tars tend to collect in the cap region of shaped cigars, causing them to gain more body/flavor relative to cylindrical rolls as they smoke down to toward the nub.

~Boar

You also may get a different experience from the way you cut in that a punch creates the same concentration affect versus a cut on a cylindrical cigar. I've yet to try the double punch cut versus pinch on a LFD DL chisel.

 

[Tapewormboy]

A few months ago, someone posted pictures on the Cigar Aficionado forum showing factory workers cutting Montecristo Edmundos down to Montecristo Petit Edmundos. That's the only time I've ever heard of two cigars being directly related in terms of blend.

It isn't too hard to imagine this happening outside of Cuba, in other brands and sizes.

 

[Goldie]

A few months ago, someone posted pictures on the Cigar Aficionado forum showing factory workers cutting Montecristo Edmundos down to Montecristo Petit Edmundos. That's the only time I've ever heard of two cigars being directly related in terms of blend.

It isn't too hard to imagine this happening outside of Cuba, in other brands and sizes.

It seems like that would be rather wasteful.

 

[Tapewormboy]

A few months ago, someone posted pictures on the Cigar Aficionado forum showing factory workers cutting Montecristo Edmundos down to Montecristo Petit Edmundos. That's the only time I've ever heard of two cigars being directly related in terms of blend.

It isn't too hard to imagine this happening outside of Cuba, in other brands and sizes.

It seems like that would be rather wasteful.

Yea, agreed.

The guy that posted it said that the demand of the Petit Edmundos was greater than expected so they were sacrificing Edmundos. This was info that he got on a tour of one of the factories. The poster later took his post down...not sure why, but it was interesting.

 

[Lemon :)]

Frank, Please send me all your cut-off churchills for proper disposal

 

[JetDr]

Perhaps your question is a simple one, and I am missing the point. Maybe you really just want to know if you can cut a cigar smaller and it be a shorter size. If in fact you are wondering if you cut a churchhill in half, will it be the same taste, absolutely not.

If indeed your question was the latter, then I will relay what I read in CA a couple years ago. The process in which the stick is rolled is strong to mild, foot to cap, therefore, if you cut a cigar in half and smoke either of the two, you won't have the same flavor profile as if you smoked the entire cigar whole.

 

[42]

...
The process in which the stick is rolled is strong to mild, foot to cap, therefore, if you cut a cigar in half and smoke either of the two, you won't have the same flavor profile as if you smoked the entire cigar whole.

If this is correct I wonder has anyone experimented with smoking the same cigar backwards to note a difference?

 

[cbd]

If this is correct I wonder has anyone experimented with smoking the same cigar backwards to note a difference?

I hear Moki regularly does this with HTF Fuentes

 

[indyrob]

A few months ago, someone posted pictures on the Cigar Aficionado forum showing factory workers cutting Montecristo Edmundos down to Montecristo Petit Edmundos. That's the only time I've ever heard of two cigars being directly related in terms of blend.

It isn't too hard to imagine this happening outside of Cuba, in other brands and sizes.

It seems like that would be rather wasteful.

Not a waste at all. Where do you think they get the filler for machine made cigars? it's all trimings.

...
The process in which the stick is rolled is strong to mild, foot to cap, therefore, if you cut a cigar in half and smoke either of the two, you won't have the same flavor profile as if you smoked the entire cigar whole.

If this is correct I wonder has anyone experimented with smoking the same cigar backwards to note a difference?

Smoking a cigar backwards runs the risk of the wrapper coming undone. A cigar is blended for it's size, so cutting it off at any point in the cigar is going to get you to the desired point faster but you're missing out on the blenders vision of the cigar. It's like listening to a song starting from the middle, you're going to miss out on the intro. I know you're just asking if the cigars are the same no matter the size but it's really a different critter through out the vitola range. Some of the smaller cigars back a considerable punch compared to the bigger churchills in the same line.