Fakes from Cuba?

[yomamar6]

Friend brought a box of Montecristo No 4 back from Cuba. No date on the bottom of the box. I said they are fake. Your thoughts?

 

[chris28054]

No pictures :sign:
I'm not sure but I believe pre 2000 they didn't have a date

 

[Mike33]

Not necessarily fake, but not a very good indicator of being the real thing. There can be all kinds of problems with packaging thanks to bad Cuban QC and I wouldn't say because one thing is off, the cigars are fake. Now, if there are multiple things wrong, then its more than likely fake. It also depends on who and where he bought the cigars in Cuba. More info would be needed to give a definitive answer.

 

[yomamar6]

I've never been to Cuba. If you buy from the "Government Store", do they have the SKU/bar codes on them or are they not that up to date on technology?

 

[Newfie]

That's a weird one because while I'd guess any box bought without a box code are fake, Monte #4's are hardly a commonly faked cigar.

IMHO, the possibility of finding a 10 year old + box of smokes ANYWHERE in Cuba is quite remote, especially considering the price of a box of #4's.

I don't recall ever seeing a box with bar code on it, or a scanner for that matter, but I wasn't looking for one so I won't say they don't exist somewhere like Havana or Veradero.

 

[armedak]

The real determining factor is where he bought them in Cuba unless other factors about the box scream "fake".

 

[mmburtch]

The new seal has a barcode if that's what you're talking about.

 

[grateful1]

Wouldn't they be fakes from somewhere else?

I mean...the box could be fake...or real...and the tobacco could really be Cuban...or not?

So...what's the question?

 

[thechenman]

No picture posted, but the first thing to look for is the seal. New ones are bar coded, old ones are not, but that would be the first thing I would look for. If the seal looks legit that is a good start. I also agree with Mike33...Cuban qualtiy control is not always the best, and I have heard from other reliable sources that there are instances where boxes do not have a date stamp on them. While not common, it is not rare to find boxes like this. The cigars themselves would be the true giveaway. How do they look, how do they feel? Most importantly...how do they smoke?

 

[Jimmy Jammer]

I am sure this has been discussed a million times but here's 1,000,001:

The "Vendido en Cuba" ink stamp is the "kiss of death". They put this on the fakes to explain away everything else that does not match up (e.g. UV Image, micro-printed seals, factory codes, box color, and another anomaly.


Habanos is promoting the bar-code (not serial number) at the end of the stamp/label as the only true authentication device.

I live in the USA and none of my 25 boxes have a valid bar-code. I would say that my most likely authentic boxes have had their bar-codes removed. Gray-market vendors remove the bar-code to "protect their sources". I'm not certain what they are protecting but I suppose they are protecting keeping you from buying from their source and not protecting their source from the source's distriburtor or area.

I suppose if I were to buy my CC from LCDH or any other authorized Habanos dealer (which is exactly none in the US) that I could use the www.habanos.com authentication web-page at the store and verify whether I wanted to buy that box there on the spot. Unfortunately, this is very rarely available and I guess shortly that the counterfeiters will fake the bar-codes.

As a collector, I find it disturbing that vendors are removing items that will provide evidence of providence and authenticity in the future. I'd pay more to get more but like I said "I'm in the US" and it's not possible.

My ramble for today... --Jimmy

 

[Jimmy Jammer]

No picture posted, but the first thing to look for is the seal. New ones are bar coded, old ones are not, but that would be the first thing I would look for. If the seal looks legit that is a good start. I also agree with Mike33...Cuban qualtiy control is not always the best, and I have heard from other reliable sources that there are instances where boxes do not have a date stamp on them. While not common, it is not rare to find boxes like this. The cigars themselves would be the true giveaway. How do they look, how do they feel? Most importantly...how do they smoke?

When looking at the seal, look at the lines radiating out under the "LEY DE JULIO..." they should be straight lines under the magnifiing glass and not jagged at all with "REPUBLICA DE CUBA" between the lines (see image below):

How do I insert an image?

And extra fine micro-printing "SELLO DE GARANTIA REPUBLICA DE CUBA" in the border area framing the large "REPUBLICA DE CUBA" of the larger (and lighter colored) stamp.

(PM me for images)

Ahh, this is not nearly as impressive w/o images...

It's hard to spot fakes from looking at just the cigars. The stamps are much easier to spot because it is easier to make a good looking cigar that a high quality micro-printing (funny but technology costs more than skilled labor). Now the stamp/label is only going to show that the stamp/label is genuine so you still need to verify the product inside the box but if the stamp is original and not broken then you are that much closer to a genuine box.

You can never be 100% but if you can get 80% or so then you probably have the real thing. If you can only get 20-30-40% then you probably don't have the goods.

Hard learned lessons. --Jimmy