Football

[wam79]

I am a NFC guy

I was wondering how other folks at CP feel

Bill

 

[surferonthecrystalcoast]

Don't matter to me football is football!!! :thumbs:

 

[Fast4Dr]

AFC East all the way. I have been a Jets season ticket holder for the last 5 years :thumbs:

 

[wam79]

When I was young I was a Giants fan
Started to follow Tampa when I lived there in the 80's

Bill

 

[SamClemmons]

There's an AFC?? Huh, go figure.

NA

 

[CoventryCat86]

NFC :thumbs:

AFC came about when they incorporated the fake AFL teams into the REAL league :sign:

Actually, there doesn't seem to really be much of a difference anymore though, I'm just bringing up old history that happened before Fast4Dr was born :sign:

 

[Maggs44]

NFC :thumbs:

AFC came about when they incorporated the fake AFL teams into the REAL league :sign:

Actually, there doesn't seem to really be much of a difference anymore though, I'm just bringing up old history that happened before Fast4Dr was born :sign:

You mean there was football before the Super Bowl? At least that's what it seems like when all the sportscasters talk about is how many Super Bowls a team has one.

Example: Last month someone on espn (or was it fox?) said that Chuck Noll holds the record of 4 Super Bowls with the same team. Well in fact, Vince Lombardi's Packer's won 5 championships in 7 years (a true dynasty). Just because they didnt call the first 3 "Super Bowls" doesn't make them less real. The first 3 championship teams were far better than the 2 that destroyed KC and Oakland.

 

[wam79]

Still a small sample but
NFC by 2:1

Bill

 

[Treamayne]

RUGBY

 

[AVB]

Still a small sample but
NFC by 2:1

Bill

13 to 10 now, not such a clear cut lead anymore is it?

 

[wam79]

Still a small sample but
NFC by 2:1

Bill

13 to 10 now, not such a clear cut lead anymore is it?

yea a lot of AFC fans
JETS , Raider Nation, PATS,
I kinda figured that the poll would start to even
Still
GIANTS, SKINS, Cowboys, NINERS , Green Bay,


Bill

 

[gawntrail]

Not as much of a clear cut difference as compared to Baseball's AL and NL. I voted AFC, but I like Fox's telecast better.

With free agency and coach shuttling, there is mucho crossover, but there are still some clear cut differences.

AFC brings to mind the vertical passing game and the NFC screams West Coast Offense.

AFC says Zone running concepts, while the NFC says pull and trap.

The most athletic QBs are in the NFC (VICK, MCNABB, CULPEPPER), while the gunslingers are in the AFC (MANNING, BRADY, BLEDSOE).

Lots of man, man free, and 2 man in the NFC, while the AFC is dominated by cover 3 and cover 2 shells that stem to 8 man boxes.

Monster Middle Linebackers roam the AFC, while the NFC has quick and nimble Outside LBs and Strong Safeties.

The NFC is an inside rush dominated conference, while the AFC comes off of the edge and blitzes more.

The League's best Defense is in the AFC (Baltimore), while the League's most productive offense is in the NFC (Minnesota).

The most dominate receiver is in the NFC (Moss), while the most dominate Corner is in the AFC (Baily).

And don't forget the League's most dominate specialist is in the AFC (Hall)

Just some things to chew on.

M. Gipson

 

[Maggs44]

The most athletic QBs are in the NFC (VICK, MCNABB, CULPEPPER), while the gunslingers are in the AFC (MANNING, BRADY, BLEDSOE).

Some good observations M.

I'd like to add Jake Plummer to the list, he's looking like a bit of a gunslinger too. I thought only Brett Favre tries to sling it left handed from his own goal line

Though I am a Packer fan through and through, I think Denver looked as good as any team last weekend. KC was supposed to be so great, but Denver sure looked like a much better team.

 

[BrownDevil]

NINERS BABY!!!!!

 

[gawntrail]

The most athletic QBs are in the NFC (VICK, MCNABB, CULPEPPER), while the gunslingers are in the AFC (MANNING, BRADY, BLEDSOE).

Some good observations M.

I'd like to add Jake Plummer to the list, he's looking like a bit of a gunslinger too. I thought only Brett Favre tries to sling it left handed from his own goal line

Though I am a Packer fan through and through, I think Denver looked as good as any team last weekend. KC was supposed to be so great, but Denver sure looked like a much better team.

A little Football 101 for those of you that are interested,

If you're looking to be an OLine coach..........Denver would be a good team to emulate. Lean and quick 265 pounders that can get up on LBs will get you more bang for the buck than 330 pound anchors out on the edges trying to protect a QBs backside.

A strong Running attack makes the QBs job that much easier. Ask any coach at any level.........."Coach, what makes an offense successful?" The answer will always be along the lines of, "establishing the ground game between the tackles, gaining 4+ on first down, converting 2nd and 3rd downs, and catching the ball when it is thrown to you." Pretty simple. How they do it is the complicated part.

Let's look at a basic West Coast Offense passing play. Developed and perfected by Bill Walsh, Joe Montana and the glory years 49ers.

The play is actually the same at all three levels (HS, College, and Pro)

Here's an example:

High School offensive play call:

<Near Right Flex Zip 80 Wildcat>

Near Right - I formation (Z receiver off the line out to the right, X receiver on the line out to the left - TE (Y) Right) - FB aligned behind the Right Guard/Tackle Gap

Flex - Y is spread out 5 yards from right tackle and is up in a WR stance

Zip - Z motions into formation and releases just inside the flexed Y

80 - 5 step action w/ Big on Big blocking up front.

Wildcat - Z has the 6 yard cross - X has a deep post to blow the top off of coverage - Y has the 8 yard curl over the B gap - Tailback checks for blitz from inside out and then releases into a swing route (Left side of the formation) - FB check releases from inside out into a 3 yard out (Right side of the Formation) - QB reads the Mike Backer (MLB) if he back peddles he hits the cross under the LBs - if the Mike takes away the cross the Qb hits the Y on the Curl behind him - If the Mike drifts either way, the QB hits the back out to the opposite side.

Now the College offensive play call:

<Trips Right Nub -Shift- to Near Right Flex Zip 80 Wildcat X Hot Slant on 2>

The play is the same with these additions:

Trips Right - Y is flexed and Z is normal and now the FB is in the Right Slot

Nub - X is in tight on the left

Shift to - Now move to Near Right Flex

**Shifting gets a good pre snap read on what the secondary coverage is and if a LB is Hot (Blitzing)

X Hot Slant - If X sees a LB Blitz that is not accounted for in the Pass Protection, he cuts off his route from a deep post to a quick slant.

At the College level there is also Option routes depending on Coverages and DB techniques. They are too numerous to describe, but any given pass play has about 3 options per route runner. Thus the term used by the announcers "on the same page".

Now the Pro Call:

<Shift to Near Right Twins Zebra-Zip 80 Wildcat Option X Hot Slant>

Again the play is the same but the following:

Shift to - Align where you want as long as 7 men are on the LOS and there is a single back somewhere between the tackles

Twins - The Z is now in the left slot

Zebra-Zip - Zebra motion across the formation out to about 10 yards past the flexed Y, turn back and regular Zip motion for a release just inside the flexed Y

Option - All routes are Option routes in the NFL. According to film study and Down and Distance tendancies is what route(s) will actually be run (thus the importance of 'berng on the same page')

I hope you enjoyed West Coast Offense 101. This was just one play. Our HS has 16 Formations, (6) 80 series pass plays, (5) 90 series pass plays (3 step action with slide protection up front), and 8 running plays (19 plays). Each and every play can be run to both sides (38 plays) and can be run from at least 3 different formations (for a total of ~342 possible combinations). And that is a simplistic HS level West Coast Offense.

Colleges are somewhere near 500 possible combinations, and the average NFL West Coast team has about 1300 possible combinations - mostly due to the option routes and Blitz Hot routes. This is the very reason most studly college QBs cannot transition to the NFL. AND why you hear that NFL coaches have 18 hour days and troubled family lives.

Most NFL teams have a potluck approach to offense because of personnel matchups week to week. There are very few 'pure systems' being run in the NFL. Now College and HS success is predicated on sticking to a fluid system. You cannot have success at the HS or College level with the potluck approach. The NFL can because of the parody of talent.

Enough for now. Too much information for most fans, but those that trully know football, these are the nuts and bolts.

The coach is in,

M. Gipson

 

[Fast4Dr]

Or in the case of Paul Hackett calling a 3rd and 8 play.....

HB draw

 

[gawntrail]

Or in the case of Paul Hackett calling a 3rd and 8 play.....

HB draw

3rd and 8 between the 40's is a good place to call the draw. But, Hackett insists on doing it from the -30 and in. Not too smart. The pass rush is statistically fierce between the 40's due to the pressure of forcing a game changing turnover, and the fact of possibly getting pinned inside the 10 on the punt.

But, from the 40 in it is usually man free or 2 man so as not to give up the cheap coverage beating post, post corner, or the ever popular 'catch a 5 yard pass and knife through the defense for a TD and jump into the crowd on 3rd and long' play.

Now, 3rd and long form the -30 and in, defenses are very conservative playing for the stop on 3rd down and the punt for field position at their -30 or better. Usually a nickel package (that would be 5 DBs - hence the term 'nickel') with a 3 man rush, double coverage on the go to guy, LBs into their Cover 2 drops (Front-side Curl- Middle - Curl/Flat) with a rolled Cover 2 to the flow side (corner in the flow side flat - FS in the front deep 1/2 - backside Corner in the backside Deep 1/2).

But, calling the draw on 3rd and Long into the teeth of a Cover 2 drop by the LBs is just plain suicidal. LBs see the draw because in their zone drops, they are keying the QB for flow, and todays LBs recover way too fast for the RB to even have a chance of making a first down (except for Barry Sanders of course).

So, yeah..........Draw is a bad call on 3rd and Long.........especially if your buried in your own end of the field. A better call is a Cover 2 beater to your #2 or #3 receiver. Better chances for success due to the double coverage on your #1.

M. Gipson

 

[joxxy]

NFC, in particular:

Gibbs is back!!!

 

[Maggs44]

Enough for now. Too much information for most fans, but those that trully know football, these are the nuts and bolts.

The coach is in,

M. Gipson

Thanks for the lesson coach, really informative.

As for too much info, might be too much for some pro players cause it reminds me of something Brett Favre once said; it was in his 3rd season (2nd season as a starter for the Packers)... in the classroom when the offense was breaking down film (tape?), he leaned over to someone (I think Doug Peterson, backup QB) and asked, "what is a niclkle defense?"

Brett is a known joker, but he recently claimed it was true.

As for the west coast offense, the pro version is so complicated, it takes a QB 2 years to be comfy in it.