High flavor/low nicotine? And age/nicotine levels?

[skesh]

Hey everyone, a couple of questions for you. In this case, my number of posts here is reflective of the fact that I am a cigar newbie, so:

Can nicotine levels and flavor/aroma/depth/character in a cigar be exclusive of eachother? Is it possible to have a cigar without a high level of nicotine, that still tastes great and full, and smells lovely and complex?

Or is it like wine, whereas, a wine that has been made non-alcoholic, or has had the ABV considerably diminished, lacks the depth and body of it's previously more alcoholic counterpart?

I had a Montrecristo No. 4 a while ago, the first cigar I had. I paced myself, did it on a full stomach, and was fine. But still, I wonder, are there cigars (Cuban or otherwise), that offer excellent flavors, complexity, aroma, etc., but don't have the potential for a whallop of nicotine? Like I said, I was fine, I don't inhale, but I am curious...if such ones exist, what are they, in your experience?

Also, can aging a cigar, beyond perhaps mellowing, improving, or coalescing the flavor and aroma, diminish the nicotine levels over time?

Is an overly young, "green" cigar more likely to have an unpleasant quantity of nicotine in it than an older cigar?

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Kento]

I would say, yes, no, no, yes. I am noob too so lets hope some FOG's chime in with their 2 cents.

 

[skesh]

Wow, a response! Heh. Thanks for answering, and by all means, if any more people experienced with this can join in and answer too, I would much appreciate it! Thanks!

 

[Kento]

Hey Skesh, maybe if you gave some examples people would be more inclined to post.

IE

"Hey, this so-and-so stick really kicked my butt last night. Would aging it make it taste better and less potent?"

Or

"What is a good cigar that has some good taste, but less of a kick?"

 

[skesh]

Hey Skesh, maybe if you gave some examples people would be more inclined to post.

IE

"Hey, this so-and-so stick really kicked my butt last night. Would aging it make it taste better and less potent?"

Or

"What is a good cigar that has some good taste, but less of a kick?"

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Alright. I then pose the question:
"What is a good cigar that has some good taste, but less of a kick?"

As for the so and so stick that really kicked my butt, the only kind I have tried was a Montecristo No. 4, and I would have to say that I was fine, I felt slightly thrown off perhaps, but for a first time smoke, not too bad. Still, I am wondering if there are some with less nicotine, but still have a great taste. Thanks again!

 

[Kento]

Well, I recently have been hooked on Carlos Torano cigars. They seem to cost around 2-3 dollars a pop online, and to me are great. Not too much kick, and the camaroon wrapper on the 1916 series is nice and tasty. I recently ordered some exodus and casa toranos, which I am waiting for with great anticipation.

 

[skesh]

Well, I recently have been hooked on Carlos Torano cigars. They seem to cost around 2-3 dollars a pop online, and to me are great. Not too much kick, and the camaroon wrapper on the 1916 series is nice and tasty. I recently ordered some exodus and casa toranos, which I am waiting for with great anticipation.

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Yes! A suggestion! Sounds alright, from one of the first Google results, "is a full flavor cigar with which is mild in strength."

Thank ye kindly, and if anyone has anymore to name, or my questions about aging, etc., to answer, that would be great. Gracias, merci, danke, thank you.

 

[SFG75]

Can nicotine levels and flavor/aroma/depth/character in a cigar be exclusive of eachother? Is it possible to have a cigar without a high level of nicotine, that still tastes great and full, and smells lovely and complex?

A "strong" cigar has a corresponding high level of nicotine and tar. Likewise, a milder cigar will have lesser amounts of those two items. No way to get around that one. In terms of aroma or character, I don't believe those qualities are necessarily due to strength or lack of high nicotine/tar levels.

Also, can aging a cigar, beyond perhaps mellowing, improving, or coalescing the flavor and aroma, diminish the nicotine levels over time?

I must confess that I can't testify as the "expert" on this confidently, I can only give my general impression on this aspect of your post. I've noticed in my humidor that generally mild or bland cigars have been "spiced up" upon being mixed with more powerful cigars in my humidor. I've been letting a few lesser quality sticks mingle with some heavy-hitters and I swear that it makes the milder ones even better by a noticable(though not great) degree.

Is an overly young, "green" cigar more likely to have an unpleasant quantity of nicotine in it than an older cigar?

You'd better believe it!. I've read from several reliable sources that what makes your head spin and makes you feel sick to your stomach is improperly aged tobacco leaf. the root cause of this problem according to some, is that the tobacco is dragged out of it's "sleeping" stage/fermenting age too quickly and is used, resulting in a very unpleasant experience for the consumer on down the line.

 

[Eshaw99]

I've actually found that aging some of my more powerful sticks seems to take a little edge off of them. Doesn't do much to diminish the nicotine level, but it smoothes out a little of the spice, especially on Opus X's. But that's just my own experience.

Alluding to SFG's post, I've read that during fermentation, ammonia is one of the by-products released from the leaf, and not letting it age long enough leaves enough to be noticable during smoking.

 

[lucasbuck]

I've read a few different places that nicotine levels will drop over time when aging cigars. I don't know how scientific this information is though.

 

[skesh]

I've read a few different places that nicotine levels will drop over time when aging cigars. I don't know how scientific this information is though.

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In the mean time, I am pretty sure that I have read and/or heard that too. But I am not sure where, though it may have been people's experience...

The too green/young/improperly aged/cured theory makes sense to me. I am not hoping to come across a cigar like that!

See, I don't smoke often, and if I choose a bigger size, I would like to not be like "whooa" when I enjoy it - I want the taste and aroma, but without the kick. A lot of kick I think can be avoided, by avoiding cigars which are notoriously strong, like the "Power Ranger", eating lots ahead of time and pacing yourself.

After doing a bunch more online searching, I have a little list of some likely high flavor/aroma and mild strength cigars. If anyone cares to comment on these, that would be great!
______________________________________________________________________

Hecho a Mano Torpedo
Carlos Torano Casa Torano
JR Special Jamaican Maduro
Jose L. Piedra
JUAN LOPEZ SELECTION NO. 1
Guantanamera
Macanudo Duke of Windsor
Fonseca family called the Vegas de Fonseca
Cacique Siboneyes Corona
Macanudo Vintage
Corona Dominican Selection Cigar
Torano Reserva Selecta

Thanks!

 

[txmatt]

Heya Skesh,

I have a definitive answer for you but unfortunately I believe the cigar is no longer made: Cupido. These cigars have a great amount of flavor but are not high in nicotine. They won't have the powerhouse amounts of flavor that JdNs, Opus, Ashton VSG, etc have but there is enough good flavor to keep a full flavor smoker like myself satisfied. I like to smoke my Cupido Knuckles when I know I will want to head to bed soon; and don't need to worry about the Nicotine giving me fits.

Cupido Cigars have been tested and certified to be naturally lower in nicotine -certified at 0.87% nicotine versus 1.9% to 4% nicotine for most other cigars.

It is possible that some of the other brands with their tobacco grown at Henry “Kiki” Berger's Tabacalera Esteli in Nicaragua would have similar nicotine levels but I am not sure of that.

Several retailers still have an ample supply of Cupido, including cigars international. You may be able to find and try a 5 pack of the Cupido cigars on Cbid. The "Classic" Cupidos are the ones that tested to the low nicotine value; I am not sure if the Criollo and/or Tuxedo lines are the same. Cubancrafters.com has a bunch of Cupidos also, and if you get on their email list you will get specials that usually save you $10/box on the sale boxes compared to the price on the web site.

Another thing to do when you don't want a big nicotine buzz is use/consume sugar; it helps your body metabolize the nicotine. Drink soda or dissolve a packet of sugar on your tongue if you start to feel woozy.

-Matt-

 

[txmatt]

After doing a bunch more online searching, I have a little list of some likely high flavor/aroma and mild strength cigars.  If anyone cares to comment on these, that would be great! 
____________________________________________________________________

Hecho a Mano Torpedo
Carlos Torano Casa Torano
JR Special Jamaican Maduro
Jose L. Piedra
JUAN LOPEZ SELECTION NO. 1
Guantanamera
Macanudo Duke of Windsor
Fonseca family called the Vegas de Fonseca
Cacique Siboneyes Corona
Macanudo Vintage
Corona Dominican Selection Cigar
Torano Reserva Selecta

Thanks!

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Skesh, the 3 I highlighted on your list are good cigars IMO. I don't like Macandudo; I haven't tried any of the others. I like cigars that have a lot of flavor but don't kick my a$$; which sounds like what you are looking for. Powerhouse a$$ kicking cigars do have the best flavor out there, and I enjoy them on occasion and just smoke them on a full stomach while drinking ginger ale.

Here are a few smokes you should consider trying for a lot of flavor without tons of nictotine besides the Cupido I recommended. Pick up singles locally to try them out; but I put lowest box prices I know of for once you find one(s) you like:

El Rey Del Mundo Robusto - $60/box 20 jrcigars.com
Padron 2000 Maduro - $60/box 25 buymorecigars.com
Sancho Panza Double Maduro Quixote - $40/box 20 jrcigars.com
Flor de Oliva Torpedo - $24.50/bundle 25 smokeall.com

-Matt-

p.s. give us some time to reply bud!

 

[skesh]

Several retailers still have an ample supply of Cupido, including cigars international. You may be able to find a try a 5 pack of the Cupido cigars on Cbid. The "Classic" Cupidos are the ones that tested to the low nicotine value; I am not sure if the Criollo and/or Tuxedo lines are the same. Cubancrafters.com has a bunch of Cupidos also, and if you get on their email list you will get specials that usually save you $10/box on the sale boxes compared to the price on the web site.

Another thing to do when you don't want a big nicotine buzz is use/consume sugar; it helps your body metabolize the nicotine. Drink soda or dissolve a packet of sugar on your tongue if you start to feel woozy.

-Matt-

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Padron 2000 Maduro - $60/box 20 buymorecigars.com
El Rey Del Mundo Robusto - $60/box 25 jrcigars.com
Sancho Panza Double Maduro Quixote - $40/box 20 jrcigars.com
Flor de Oliva Torpedo - $24.50/bundle 25 smokeall.com

Thanks for the advice on the sugar packets. I have also read that certain supplements can speed the elimination of nicotine, such as Spirulina, Aged Kyolic Garlic Extract, Barleygrass or Wheatgrass, etc.

Thank you for the suggestions of the ones from my list you have tried and others too. I am not big on the idea of buying a box like you said, so I may look into singles.

p.s. give us some time to reply bud!

Heh, I know, sorry. I do appreciate the responses everyone.

 

[Treamayne]

Ok....Some info.

Nicotine is the principal alkaloid in tobacco. As an alkaloid, the uptake of nicotine can be altered by altering the pH of the tobacco (and therefor the pH of the smoke produced during consumption.) The curing, drying and re-drying process all alters the state of the tobacco, any aging gives off ammonia (an alkaloid) and thereby lowers the pH of the leaf. Most companies add ammonia to water solutions in the re-wetting of the plant to restore the pH (and hence the nicotine uptake and increases addictability). Improperly cured and dried plants will have more of their natural pH and may give off more of their nicotine during consumption. However, depending on the plant (crop rotations and curing process) it is still possible to have a young plant yeild lower nicotine levels than an older or more thoroughly aged plant. All that said, aging cigars post-production is also known tr release ammonia and allow the oils to blend and marry. Allowing that ammonia to release and not reabsorb can effectivly lower the pH yeild of the tobacco. A variance of 2 points on the pH scale (specifically 4.6 - 6.5) was shown to increase nicotine yeild by 45%! (Website here)

Hope that helps......

Ask for more info.

 

[SFG75]

The too green/young/improperly aged/cured theory makes sense to me. I am not hoping to come across a cigar like that!

I have quite the story on this one. I went to a smoke store, typical chain that has only a handful of cigars, mostly of the cheap kind. I picked out a Las Cabrillas churchill. I smoked it outside and truly enjoyed the flavor. As I kept going, I began to feel a little dizzy, but kind of happy drunk(no, liquor was not involved) Before I knew it, I was just sick to my stomach and knew that I had to go lie down. It turns out that Las Cabrillas is notoriously known for using "green" leaves. I love Mexican cigars(if anyone has Te-Amos I'll trade) and this one was just horrible. Avoid this brand like the plague until they get their act together.

 

[skesh]

A variance of 2 points on the pH scale (specifically 4.6 - 6.5) was shown to increase nicotine yeild by 45%! (Website here)

Hope that helps......

Ask for more info.

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45%! Whoa! That sucks. I'm not down with intentionally increasing the nicotine if the palatability of the cigar remains great without it. Interesting info, thanks!

SFG75, Las Cabrillas is now definately on my list of not to try. I realize that there is also a market for stronger (nicotine-wise) cigars, but I don't mean strong like that. Good that companies also cater some good ones to those who don't want a big nicotine kick.

 

[Mephiston]

You will notice a" green" cigar right away as they are bitter and on some you can even notice the ammonia smell.
I have to say as far as nic and tar I dont know the levels but Fuente has quite a few medium bodied cigars that are complex and wont nock your socks off. the Hemmingway is an good example tasty but not so strong.
If you want to go really light with flavor Macanudo tops the charts for mild cigars.

 

[Augie754]

Some interesting things on this site

http://www.theorudman.com/Guide_to_cigar_smoking_1.htm

 

[Treamayne]

More info and advertising.....

Ligero Leaf - Leaves come from different parts of the tobacco plant. The leaves near the top of the plant are called ligero. The ligero leaf has the strongest flavor and effect. It is exposed to the most sun light and is the oldest. They are matured for two to three years before they are used. Corespondingly has the highest nicotine content.

Seco Leaf - Much lighter in colour, and dry in texture, seco leaf is taken from the central leaves on the plant which still have flavour, but not as much as ligero. They can be used after eighteen months, diffusing the intensity of the ligero leaf.

Volado Leaf - The volado leaf, from the bottom of the plant, has
little flavour but assists the burning of the cigar and is usable after just nine months of maturation. Smallest nicotine content.

It is notable that many strong cigars will advertise their use of the Ligero leaf, and for you that would be an instant "too strong" message. (eg: La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero Chisel) However, and here the FOGs can ring in, I have never seen a cigar that advertised use of the Volado leaf - though many will advertise or be reviewed as mild cigars.

V/R

-K-

References:

Cigar Flavor

Sizes and Flavor

Making Cigars

Nicotine Content