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I need a UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply)

CigarStone

CigarStone

For once, knowledge is making me poor!
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
12,150
Location
Northeast, Ohio
First Name
Jeff
I have a hunting camp and I heat it with a free standing propane furnace which works great except for one thing. It has an electronic thermostat and if I experience a momentary power glitch it shuts off and has to be lit again by simply pushing a button. This is typically not a problem because I don't heat the cabin in cold weather except when I use it.

The winterizing process and subsequent reopening is a bit of a process and this winter I am doing a consulting project which is much closer to the cabin than home so I am staying there and therefore not winterizing.

Here's the issue:

If I leave the furnace on at a low temp just to keep pipes from freezing, I run the risk of a momentary power glitch shutting off my furnace and nobody would know (if it's a sustained power outage a neighbor will go in and light the furnace for me). These momentary glitches are quite common.

So.......I need a UPS that would get me through a short duration of power outage (milliseconds to a few minutes). It is a 30,000BTU programmable unit with a blower motor which is the issue, the blower motor will draw big current at start up and if this happened coincidentally with a power outage it would kill a small UPS.

Any suggestions?
 
Don't bother with UPS. Most UPS is only good for a short amount of time. I use a few to just keep power on till our generator kicks in. Takes a minute or two. That's what you should be looking into. A generator that's setup to switch on if the power drops. Better investment. You can get them to work on propane, NG, gas, or diesel.

DG
 
Are you sure you are looking at this correctly. Don't you just need a low voltage UPS to keep the thermostat from losing it's settings and not to run the whole furnace?
 
AVB said:
Are you sure you are looking at this correctly. Don't you just need a low voltage UPS to keep the thermostat from losing it's settings and not to run the whole furnace?
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. The electronic thermostats in my house are backed up with a AA battery. I'm surprised this one isn't backed up in a similar fashion. If you have the option to replace the thermostat, I'd look for one with a built in battery backup.

If you only need to backup power to the thermostat, and not the entire unit (blower fan), AND you have the means to power the thermostat separately, then any small UPS should work. I'm betting this isn't an option for you though.
 
We have some APC products in our server room and they work great. I never thought of using it for things other then computers, but one way or another figure out exactly what needs powering. I agree that only the thermostats need backup. But what do I know?
 
AVB said:
Are you sure you are looking at this correctly. Don't you just need a low voltage UPS to keep the thermostat from losing it's settings and not to run the whole furnace?
Click to expand...


sonuvabum said:
AVB said:
Are you sure you are looking at this correctly. Don't you just need a low voltage UPS to keep the thermostat from losing it's settings and not to run the whole furnace?
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. The electronic thermostats in my house are backed up with a AA battery. I'm surprised this one isn't backed up in a similar fashion. If you have the option to replace the thermostat, I'd look for one with a built in battery backup.

If you only need to backup power to the thermostat, and not the entire unit (blower fan), AND you have the means to power the thermostat separately, then any small UPS should work. I'm betting this isn't an option for you though.
Click to expand...
You two gents make me proud, you two obviously have electrical experience. The low voltage thermostat is definitely the unit to back up. :thumbs:
 
The thermostat back up would have been the wise way to build this thing but alas, the unit will still try to run the blower motor. But......good ideas come from good heads. I will look at the wiring to see if I can simply back up the T-stat and let the blower motor be inop when AC is out.

It is a Procom vent free "space" heater SHOWN HERE and I am betting that the T-stat is powered by AC but I will soon find out
 
After seeing that, a UPS would probably work. That fan looks like a low output type designed to help circulate the air. Specs on the heater should show current requirements. I would think a mid-size UPS should cover this. Worst thing is the alarm on the UPS might sound when the fan engages. If it does, some models allow to turn that feature off. I actually did this with a small space heater a few years ago.

Always had good luck with APC. Best in the biz IMO.

Try this...
 
I see what the problem is, the thermostat is part of the unit. If you had gone low tech and had a manual controlled unit you wouldn't have this problem. Our 36K BTU ventless heater will continue to burn even if power goes out since you have to move a knob to change the settings. If power goes out it just won't start up again until it is restored. Our blower doesn't come on immediately and I don't think yours would either. If it is anything like mine it is just a 6" fan that doesn't draw that much juice at all. I'd bet a 400W UPS will keep it running for 30 minutes.
 
Yep.

I am waiting to hear from the manufacturer as to the wiring diagrams but I will also be at the cabin tonight and can check for myself. If I can insert the APC in line with the control panel so that it remains powered I am fine because even without the blower motor the unit will heat the place.
 
Diesel Grinch said:
Don't bother with UPS. Most UPS is only good for a short amount of time. I use a few to just keep power on till our generator kicks in. Takes a minute or two. That's what you should be looking into. A generator that's setup to switch on if the power drops. Better investment. You can get them to work on propane, NG, gas, or diesel.

DG
Click to expand...

You somehow missed "hunting camp" and thought you read "chalet" :D
 
Without a schematic it's hard to tell but it may be easier to break out the heater and blower power using SSR's (solid state relays) and UPS the main cabinet which would have the control circuits and any sensors in it.

In any event, there's no point in trying to UPS the whole thing; you're definitely on the right path.

Good luck - B.B.S.
 
CigarStone said:
Yep.

I am waiting to hear from the manufacturer as to the wiring diagrams but I will also be at the cabin tonight and can check for myself. If I can insert the APC in line with the control panel so that it remains powered I am fine because even without the blower motor the unit will heat the place.
Click to expand...

I doubt you will be able to bypass the blower fan. I'm sure the thermostat is powered from within the unit on something way less than 110v. Like Ray says, just plug the bitch into the UPS and pop a beer.

You're sweating the small stuff here.

:cool:
 
CigarStone said:
Diesel Grinch said:
Don't bother with UPS. Most UPS is only good for a short amount of time. I use a few to just keep power on till our generator kicks in. Takes a minute or two. That's what you should be looking into. A generator that's setup to switch on if the power drops. Better investment. You can get them to work on propane, NG, gas, or diesel.

DG
Click to expand...

You somehow missed "hunting camp" and thought you read "chalet" :D
Click to expand...

After rereading your first post the best answer is to change the heater. Get one that you can set to a temperature that turns itself on and off with out the button. Would cost the same as buying a small UPS.

DG
 
Here is a LINK

According to the details.

These run on pilot light and do not need electricity. This was just a quick look around. You would have to do some better research to see if something like this would fit the bill. If you happen to have a large propane tank call the company that fills it and tell them what you want. I bet they have something that would work.

DG
 
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