I also have no question that a human life is worth more than a canine's, and if it is SOP is to kill the dogs even in retreat, well it is what it is. Souldog could comment here perhaps, he seems to know more that I do on this subject. If there are too many variables to account for I understand and will take you at your word.
It is not SOP to shoot a fleeing dog. In my department's MOU, which I understand may change from department to department and state to state, if a dog is posing as a threat that may cause serious bodily harm (AKA baring it's teeth while running STRAIGHT at you), you are authorized to use the force necessary to neutralize the threat. This may mean using a pepperball gun, a beanbag round, or the unfortunate use of a shotgun round. I will say (from personal experience) having a hundred pound pissed off dog foaming at the mouth and running at you makes you hold your breath, and certain body parts jump up into certain nether-regions, and you think in your mind, "Aw shit...this is gonna hurt." Thank God I've never been bitten, but it's a serious heart-jumper!
I have no arguments with this. I don't want police officers to be killed doing their jobs. I don't want them to be forced to kill anyone either while doing their job. Maybe their job doesn't have to be as dangerous as it is...
Thank you for saying that, seriously. As far as the job being dangerous, I know where you're coming from, and the optimistic part of me wants to believe in that happening where the common man looks out for his neighbor and we all protect one another and we don't need a Police Department to enforce laws, but unfortunately as a society we're not seeing this. Crime rates continue to rise. People are desperate in this economic crisis and violent crime is on the rise. If it's going to happen, it's not happening anytime soon based on what we're seeing.
Just last week I had a young kid bleed out while I was working on him in an alley of a populated apartment complex at 1300 hours in the afternoon. He had a gunshot wound to the ribs, and a bullet go through his skull (obviously I didn't find out about the headshot until afterwards when they cleaned him up). The point is that on a Saturday in the middle of the day, about 30 people
stood around watching it while this young kid bled out from being caught in the middle of a drug deal gone bad crossfire, and only
one person called the Police, and
nobody helped this kid. It's a reality right now.
As an American citizen I have a right to protect myself and my property (home, pets, etc), and "law enforcement officers" who enter my property without appropriate legal authority are criminals.
This is a true statement. If the Police are entering your home,
truly without legal reason, then you have a right to protect yourself. Firing upon a Police Officer, however, is not the wisest thing to do in a situation like that. I say "truly without a reason" because there are so many federal laws, city laws, and city statutes that the average citizen does not know about, and firing upon the Police "in defense" of your home is not a good idea.
With that said, I understand that officers are human beings and make mistakes, but when the consequences of a mistake are so
severe, and the benefits of the policies which set the stage for these mistakes are questionable then it may be time to do a risk/benefit analysis and see if what we're doing is really worth it.
I read that link, and from what I gather, the Police were serving a "No Knock” warrant. I am not a fan of that type, and that's why I am glad we don't have them in CA. But, regardless,
the Police announced themselves, opened the door of the location, and we're immediately fired upon. From the article:
Dreher said as soon as the officers forced open the door, Johnston shot at the officers and the officers returned fire to protect themselves. One officer was shot 3 times – once in the leg, on the side of the face and once in his bulletproof vest. One officer was hit in the leg and another hit in their arm.
So, we have a known "drug house" in the city, and a warrant was granted. This means a Judge, who was elected by
THE PEOPLE city/county/etc. and is an
un-biased third party removed from the situation, reviewed the circumstances surrounding the need for a warrant to enter the location, and granted it. Then, three Officers show up to the house to serve the warrant, ANNOUNCE THEMSELVES, enter, and five shots are fired at the Officers by a female occupant inside the house. All five of the rounds hit the Officers, wounding three. The Officers fire back at the female occupant and neutralize the threat. Take away the "92 year old elderly woman" spin to the story, and look at it from an objective point of view.
Another true story: One Officer attempts to conduct a traffic stop on a vehicle that ran a stop sign. The vehicle fails to yield for several miles, and a pursuit situation is relayed to the Supervisor. Two other Officers join in on the pursuit. The pursuit goes for approximately 8 miles when the driver of the vehicle stops in a remote area near a house. The driver of the vehicle exits the vehicle and runs north from the three Officers' position. As the three Officers cover the vehicle, automatic gunfire erupts from north of the location. Several rounds hit the Police units, and wound one Officer, piercing his body armor. What do the Officers do? Fire back in self-defense, and neutralize the threat. That happened last July, and it was pitch-black. Could the Officers tell whether it was a 12 year old, a 30 year old female, or a 93 year old man? Nope. All they knew is that rounds were flying past their heads, hit one of their buddies, and if they wanted to go home and stop one of those rifle rounds from hitting a kid 5 blocks away, the threat had to be neutralized. It's a sticky situation, and it sucked, but it has to happen. I don't know one guy on the force in my department who can honestly tell you he likes killing people. Without getting too personal, more than I already have, it's something you deal with when it's quiet and no one's around. It's a reality of the job. It's not fun, but it happens.
Like I said, I appreciate your position, and I admire your conviction. It is your right to say it, and many folks like myself are sworn to protect that right. Frankly, you're handling this like a gentleman and I respect that. I wish we could live in a society where war and violence didn't exist, because my family and many many others would sleep easier at night.
Hey Souldog....tip 'o the hat to you Brother....you keep fighting the good fight. Don't be a prick and go rogue...too many of your brothers doing that for you. I have a house full of firearms, most legal, a couple not-so-much, but all of them well kept and I have two cop buddies that approve all the way (military with me, but Law Enforcement nonetheless). Too many assclowns out in the world for there not to be hard dudes with the ability to shoot straight and heavy enough. You keep your powder dry, Brother and know that there are plenty of citizens that understand. It's a fucking hard job and just by definition, you're "that guy". I don't envy you, but I've got your six. Make sure you keep straight in your head who the good guys are, and treat them accordingly during your career. We're all around you, and we know what's up.
Trey
Trey, you crack me up man! I liked the "couple not-so-much" comment! :laugh: I'll be honest, I wish every citizen knew how to fire a weapon and safely carry one. I really do. It's our Constitutional freakin' right to bear arms, but gun control is an interesting thing that I won't get into because it violates the rules of this board. That said, I know you're out there too Trey, so I've got your six too brother, believe that...
I am completely in agreement with Ery and you Trey, and I want to be clear: I have no problems with the average citizen bearing arms. It got us out of tyrannical rule, and we have that right, and I wish more citizens would invoke that right!
