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Is there a wine cooler

D

Dr. Marneaus

I drive a station wagon
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,039
Location
Las Vegas, NV
I've been reading up on alot of wine cooler humidor threads, looking for different options, sizes brands etc, because in vegas it's gonna be necessary come summer, when I cant keep my AC on all day.

I'll be looking at indoor temps of 90+ most likely.

My main concern is that most of the units i see, even the thermoelectric cooled ones really mess with the RH when they unit kicks on. Sure this might not be a problem if your house sits at 78 degrees and it only comes on for a little while per day, but if my house is getting up to 90+ the unit will constantly be running.

Are there any ways to mitigate this? Whether it be a certain type of cooler that doesn't lower the humidity, adding more wood, adding more beads adding more cigars etc?

Just looking for some discussion and advice.
 
I would think a hybrid of an active humidification system and plenty of beads to help balance the swings would be ideal in this situation. Is anyone running a system like this that can comment? The problem with any cooled storage container is that the cooling mechanism regardless of what kind, is going to alter the RH when it kicks on and off. The goal would be to buffer these swings so that the cigars are affected as little as possible.


My $0.02

There's always option B. Send them to me over here in Boston, Ill keep them safe :-P
 
I thought I've seen threads where folks are raving about their wine fridges that have cooling mechanisms that don't mess with the Rh? I would think a decent wine fridge would want to avoid that humidity fluctuation with wine as well as cigars.

But one thing that will help is finding the coolest place in your house/apartment, perhaps an interior closet that doesn't have sun hitting it. That way at least you are keeping the temp fluctuation to a minimum.
 
Most units recommend you never let the ambient temp exceed 90 anyway. No, I do not believe there is an answer. Just keep your house as cool as you can and run your cooler at a bit warmer temp to offset the difference.
 
Maybe there's a way to better insulate the unit. And of course you could always consider doing something as easy as placing an ice pack in there every day, then when you get home get the ice pack out and put it back in the freezer overnight. But that might get a bit tedious for the entire hot season, and if you forget a few times and the temps spike up into the 80's for your cigars then you're definetely in trouble.
 
PGK said:
I would think a hybrid of an active humidification system and plenty of beads to help balance the swings would be ideal in this situation. Is anyone running a system like this that can comment? The problem with any cooled storage container is that the cooling mechanism regardless of what kind, is going to alter the RH when it kicks on and off. The goal would be to buffer these swings so that the cigars are affected as little as possible.


My $0.02

There's always option B. Send them to me over here in Boston, Ill keep them safe :-P
Click to expand...
The problem with this is that the active system can kick on very quickly and put out more humidity than the beads can adsorb in a timely manner. This can lead to humidity spikes that can get quite high for longer than you would want. I had that set up going in my system before I just unplugged it (it's a compressor unit).
 
So let me get this straight, compressor units tend to up the RH due to the condensation? where as TE units seem to reduce it?

Most things I've seen have dealt with reduced RH while running.

The ice pack is indeed clever. I'd be curious as to what overall effect that would have. Would it lower humidity also? The ambient water would condense on the ice pack would it not?

I'm just trying to find a close-to-ideal system to keep things happy during the summer months. Running ac at 80 or 75 is not an option, as that would bring in 200 dollar power bills every month.
 
I have a wine cooler and have had a much harder time keeping humidity up in the winter than I do the summer. Mine has gone down to 59% rh this winter. I use 65% beads, 2 oust fans and a fan from an oasis. Mine stays much more stable at 65% in the summertime. I'm in the same situation as you. I cant keep my house anywhere close to 70 degrees. My power bill would be way over $300 a month.
 
Dr. Marneaus said:
So let me get this straight, compressor units tend to up the RH due to the condensation? where as TE units seem to reduce it?

Most things I've seen have dealt with reduced RH while running.

The ice pack is indeed clever. I'd be curious as to what overall effect that would have. Would it lower humidity also? The ambient water would condense on the ice pack would it not?

I'm just trying to find a close-to-ideal system to keep things happy during the summer months. Running ac at 80 or 75 is not an option, as that would bring in 200 dollar power bills every month.
Click to expand...
The compressor units suck the humidity right out of the air VERY quickly when they come on. Once they go off that condensation causes the humidity to go up again relatively quickly, especially if you have active humidification (Oasis, Hydra, etc.) that activates as the humidity goes down while the compressor is running. This causes HUGE swings in humidity that I just wasn't comfortable with. At first I thought it would be fine, but over time it got to the point that it was just too much even with 2 lbs of beads to act as a buffer.

The TE units I have little experience with, but what I understand based on my reading here is that they keep the humidity more stable. Not COMPLETELY stable, but more stable than the compressor units. There can still be some condensation.


Wine colling units are not designed to keep cigars and they are not designed to really deal with humidity problems unless you go very high end. The ones most people have bought are really nothing more than small refrigerators that aren't really ideal for long term storage and aging (talking in terms of years here) of wine or cigars. If you want climate control with very few humidity related issues for cigar storage you will need to buy a cabinet designed for storing cigars.
 
I have a TE unit with a RANCO installed. I keep my unit in the basement, so even in the summer my unit won't kick on more than few times a day.

I brought mine upstairs (due to flooding) this week, and since the temp is higher upstairs the unit has been kicking on more often. The largest swing in humidity I've seen is going from 65% to about 56%. Then it goes back up to where I want it after the unit cools off. This is acceptable to me as it will only even kick on for about 3 months out of the year, and only a few times a day during those months.

I run an active humidification device (hydra) with one sock of beads on the top shelf. But I've only been running it a month or so. Time will ultimately tell if it is a good unit or not.
 
Dr. Marneaus said:
So let me get this straight, compressor units tend to up the RH due to the condensation? where as TE units seem to reduce it?

Most things I've seen have dealt with reduced RH while running.

The ice pack is indeed clever. I'd be curious as to what overall effect that would have. Would it lower humidity also? The ambient water would condense on the ice pack would it not?

I'm just trying to find a close-to-ideal system to keep things happy during the summer months. Running ac at 80 or 75 is not an option, as that would bring in 200 dollar power bills every month.
Click to expand...
I think you focused on the wrong part of his advice to you. It is not the compressor type cooling system that drove up his RH, it was the active humidification device he had previously employed in his wine cooler. Active humidifiers (Cigar Oasis, Hydra, etc) tend to overshoot humidity when they kick on. The plastic inner walls of the wine cooler aren't gonna absorb that humidity, so it's gonna float around the interior air until the cigars and cigar boxes soak up some of that excess.

It's not so much that compressor systems reduce RH while running. They do, but in a roundabout way. What they do is suck the humidity to the back of the wine cooler, where it hits up against a plate on the back wall. It collects onto that back plate where it eventually builds up into water droplets and drips down the plate and to the bottom of the unit - where it then escapes the unit through a drain hole on the bottom. A fan or two at the back of the wine cooler, pushing the air towards the center of the unit would strongly help mitigate any loss of humidity - and also help mitigate any pockets of varying humidity within the cooler.

The ice pack is guaranteed to drip condensation water as it melts from its frozen state. If you wanna go that route, I'd strongly suggest to have the ice pack sit atop a towel or fully inside a dish of some type. You'll want to remove that pool of water from the ice pack. Stagnant water is prime for mold.

The wine cooler will kick on more often in high heat. That is true. But once it's cold, it's cold, and won't have to turn on 24/7. Don't open it all the time and don't leave the door open for long periods of time when you do poke through it and you should be fine. No different than the regular ol' kitchen fridge.

All humidification systems I have seen for wine coolers work: Active humidification, humidification beads, active humidifier with beads, active humidifier with polymer gels, kitty litter (silica gel), ....... you name it. It all depends on what you already have at hand and would save you from buying more stuff, how much you wanna tinker, and what system you have more confidence in - but they all work.
 
Alrighty, thanks for the advice guys. I'll concisder everything here, I think I understand for the most part.

I'd be planning on doing some sort of cedar lining, whether it be veneer or shelves or something made of luan. I'd assume that this would also help buffer any swings, along with having a massive amount of beads?

As far as fans to kick the air away from the plate, would thses be best to turn on only when the system is cooling? or to have running constantly? or on intervals? etc?

I want to get this done right the first time, I'm a poor college kid who cant afford to mess up too much haha.

Thanks,
Andrew
 
Cedar definitely helps to buffer against humidity swings. I think the cedar of cigar boxes is sufficient. I opted not to give up any interior space by adding any cedar lining. My cigars are (relatively) well protected inside of the boxes they came in.

Some people get timers for the fans. Some leave 'em (fewer fans though) on all the time. Some plug 'em in and then disconnect them at will. Again, all will work, and you'll find (or begin another) a whole line of debate when it comes to the pros and cons of each.
 
The short answer to your question is a resounding NO. But a wine fridge is still your best option unless you have the coin for a temp controlled cab like Bob Staebel (Aristocrat) or Matt Avallo make.

I've been running a Haier for three summers in VA and have been through all of the stuff. Doc, here's my solutions. Take them for what they are worth and PM me if you have any specific or set-up questions. Through trial and error and a few ruined cigars I think I have the solution for my home. It is trial and error problem because every environment is different but in the end, like me, you'll fine the right solution.

I have a 102 bottle Haier, it's big, so factor size into what I do.

The first thing that is a MUST is air circulation inside the unit. Without it you are spitting into that very dry wind out there. I have two fans, purchased at radio shack, wired onto one of the shelves near the bottom and positioned to blow air right up the cooling plate. They are on a timer that runs them 15 minutes every two hours. This helps to moderate the humidity inside the unit and doesn't allow it to settle to the bottom. It also blows the hotter air off the top and effectively rotates it around the inside of the unit..

Next I have two pounds of pre-charged 69% beads placed at strategic spots (five in all) around the unit. In summer they sit dry since it is humid here in VA. You'll have to keep them pretty well soaked I would expect. In winter here I normally keep two of the five trays wet and the other three dry. That , in addition to all of the boxes handles the regulation. As expressed above when you have a fridge you are dealing with a plastic shell so you have to over-do the regulators a bit. I've also seen folks line fridges with spanish cedar, but while it looks good I think i'ts expensive and a bit of over-kill.

I actually think a cigar oasis or other active humidity device is a mistake in a fridge since you are in a plastic shell and those units will spike it too high. I have had an e-mail conversation with Bob Staebel about this and he agrees with me. I'm nobody but he knows what the hell he's talking about, LOL.

Finally, and MOST importantly, I have the fridge itself on a timer. I don't just let it run. This is crucial and it has taken me three summers to get it right. In winter we keep the house set at 68 so the fridge is unplugged. In spring and fall when temps here moderate I run it 15 minutes every four hours. In summer we keep the house at a temp that has the ambient air at 82 or 83 degrees in the room where I keep the fridge. I run it 15 minutes every two hours. That is plenty. If you just plug them in and let them run you have two problems depending on the type of unit. One is condensation. If I just let my Haier run all summer I have Niagara Falls running down the back. It plays hell with humidity and just makes a mess, not to mention moldy wrappers on the cigars closest to the plate. Second problem is that you will NEVER get your humidity to moderate. Every time the boxes and beads catch up the unit will fire up again and throw it all out of whack. Oh and the 15 minutes I run the fridge ALWAYS coincides with the 15 minutes the fans are running. In summer I put them on the same timer. That is crucial!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have to accept that in a 90 degree environment you are not going to maintain 65 degrees inside that unit with out the humidity flying all over the place. You only have to keep it below 75 to prevent bugs. That's important, don't over do it. You need to do this by trial and error. Get one of those timers that allow programming on 15 minute intervals. Daytime is not like the fires of hell out there yet but I imagine its starting to get hot. Put it on a 15 minute run every 4 hours and see how it does. If you find it over 75 drgrees during the off cycle just shorten the cycle until you get it right. It's trial and error but the fridge is absolutely the way to go for you.

One thing I also learned. DON'T LOOK AT YOUR HYGROMETER WHEN THE UNIT IS RUNNING! That's the best way to deal with the 25% swings that happen within 30 seconds of the unit turning on. Try to ignore it, cuz you can't do anything about it. Just remember that with boxes and beads in place it will be back to 65 or 70% pretty quickly after it turns off. That swing in that short a period of time won't affect the cigars very much at all. They are resilient little suckers, and remember too that just because the humidity in the ambient air went from 68 to 45 to 65 in a ten or fifteen minute cycle the moisture comntent of the wrapper didn't have time to change. It's not like out there when you take one of your 70% humidity humidor to 105 degrees and 10% humidity. I had a cigar out there once and carried it to dinner and then out to the pool to smoke. It had been out of the travel humi about two hours and when I pulled it out of my pocket the wrapper had absolutely exploded. It was almost funny................almost.

cheers
 
Big Frankie said:
I have a Spanish Cedar lined Vinotemp 28 Bottle cooler with 3lbs of 65% beads. Humidity is always around 64-67% regardless of temperature.

-Frank
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Would the vinotemp fall into the range of "very expensive ones that are designed for long term storage therefore have minimal effect on humidity?" Aren't they like 300 a pop?
 
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