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ISOM mystery - can you solve this?

P

PTownshend

big-nosed cigar freak!
Here's the facts:

** my buddy (Ted) ordered a box of 25 H Upmann Magnum 46s from a ISOM dealer we all know and love (PM for details)

** He received the box, however the lid was inserted upside down.

** When he opened the cigars they were banded, yet the size was not what the Magnum size should be (that being 5 5/8" by 46). The ring size was measured at a definite 48 for all the puros. I'm not certain if the length was different or not.

** Can anyone tell me if something sounds slightly amiss with regards to this? If so, can you help solve the problem. For Ted, the problem is the dimension of the cigar (again, I'll recheck the length issue later today but I know he told me the ring size was a definite 48 for all the cigars).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Darren
 
If the length is 5 inches, I would say that he received a box of H Upmann Conn. No. 1 by mistake. If they are 5 5/8 inches, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
 
I'm not sure what he used to measure it but will gladly ask him when he gets home from work this evening.

On Ted's behalf I can tell you that he's been smoking ISOMs now since 1977 and has a solid grasp on ring sizes and lengths to an uncanny degree. He also claimed that the cigars smelled "a little green" or young, thinking that maybe they needed to be aged a bit longer.

Can you tell me what your thoughts are on this? Also, for my own benefit, please let me know the best way to measure ring size.

wasch_24 said:
What did he use to measure the ring?
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PTownshend said:
I'm not sure what he used to measure it but will gladly ask him when he gets home from work this evening.

On Ted's behalf I can tell you that he's been smoking ISOMs now since 1977 and has a solid grasp on ring sizes and lengths to an uncanny degree. He also claimed that the cigars smelled "a little green" or young, thinking that maybe they needed to be aged a bit longer.

Can you tell me what your thoughts are on this? Also, for my own benefit, please let me know the best way to measure ring size.

wasch_24 said:
What did he use to measure the ring?
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As for the cigars smelling green or young, not really surprising with either the Mag 46 or the HU Conn no 1. Both are very popular cigars and it takes some work to find boxes that are aged. I would suspect that the cigars are from sometime in 05. As for the measuring ring gauge, there are some small gauges that you can buy in a cigar shop. It has holes...you put the cigar to the holes until it fits. It is pretty accurate. I usually can't find mine, so I just use a ruler. Good question, however, because the ring gauge difference between the 46 and the Conn No. 1 is only 1/32 of an inch.
 
I typically use a ruler because the cardboard gauge I have from some CA handout is inaccurate.

I wouldn't be concerned with the young smell unless they have an older box code really.

Also, Mags come with bands now.

Maybe they are so fresh and possibly a little over humidified from their journey that they are slightly swollen.

Edited for typos.
 
wasch_24 said:
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I wouldn't be concerned with the young smell unless they have an older box code really.

Also, Mags come with bands now.

Maybe they are so fresh and possibly a little over humidified from their journey that they are slightly swollen.

...
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I was thinking the exact same things.
 
PTownshend said:
On Ted's behalf I can tell you that he's been smoking ISOMs now since 1977 and has a solid grasp on ring sizes and lengths to an uncanny degree.
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Not sure what the question is. Are you concerned they're not real? This sounds like something that should be taken up with the "trusted" vendor. Short of examining and smoking one of the cigars everyone here can only speculate.

Tell your buddy to smoke one....with his almost 30 years of smoking cubans he'll have no problem determining the origin.
 
Hello there,
The question is this: if you got a box that had a lid inserted upside down but with the ISOM sticker affixed appropriately, opened up the box and saw (aside from the bands, which is a trivial issue at this point being that I know the answer) that the cigars measured a different ring gauge AND having smoked one you could sense that cigar is a bit "green", what would you conclude about this all.

Thanks for your suggestion, but please understand that I'm not asking anyone here to give me a definitive answer (nor am I expecting one). Of course everyone will have a suggestion or an idea and I'm not so inclined to assume anyone would have ONE true answer.

In short, I'd like to hear what others think of this situation. So, in saying so, what is YOUR thoughts on this? What do YOU think about all of this?

Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks.

Darren

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Not sure what the question is. Are you concerned they're not real? This sounds like something that should be taken up with the "trusted" vendor. Short of examining and smoking one of the cigars everyone here can only speculate.

Tell your buddy to smoke one....with his almost 30 years of smoking cubans he'll have no problem determining the origin.
 
PTownshend said:
The question is this: if you got a box that had a lid inserted upside down but with the ISOM sticker affixed appropriately, opened up the box and saw that the cigars measured a different ring gauge AND having smoked one you could sense that cigar is a bit "green", what would you conclude about this all.
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The Cuban cigar industry is not known for the best in quality assurance. Some factories are better than others but across the board they're average at best. A ring gauge being off by a very slight amount (depending on how its being measured) or a cigar lenth being slightly off is not, in itself, reason to discount them as being fake.....concerned yes. A slidetop lid being sealed upsidedown is not, in itself, reason to discount them as fake....concerned yes. A smoked cigar that one senses (??)** is a bit green is not, in itself, reason to discount them as fake....concerned yes.

** I felt I should sidenote that reading the sentence of "having smoked one you could sense that cigar is a bit green" is vague. IMO, "green" means young tobacco. Was it cuban tobacco? Was it close to the MAG taste profile? Smoking the cigar is far and above the real test so , IMO, that is where the rubber meets the road.

IMO, when you have a combination of red flags on a box of cuban cigars your pucker factor should rise. I personally would base my take on the situation by smoking one. If the cigar didn't fit the Mag profile I would ask the vendor to replace them. Bottom line, if its a "trusted source" there is little to worry about.
 
Thanks for your assessment. It makes sense and will be sent on to Ted to make it his decision on what he wants to do. Concerned about the smaller factors has me wondering what you are thinking (in so far as what you feel are the reasons to be "concerned" or what "concern" you have about those factors).

"A bit green" to demarcate that its HIS taste test, not mine. His words, not mine. His experience, not mine. He did say that it didn't fully taste like the Magnums he's used to getting from his other distributor. If that means he thinks its a fake versus just a slightly younger tasting ISOM leaf is really in the POV of Ted and the reader of this. I'm not certain which I believe just yet but am curious just the same so this could be a learning experience for me, and a chance to take away some great thoughts from some great folks here.

Ted holds cigar sellers in high regards and new ones in contempt (of course, until he gets to know them as trustworthy). He's the type of person that is used to one such cigar dealer who he's happy getting his puros from. This was a foray into dealings with vendors he's never had to trust before, with my help and suggestions. He's told me that he's happier to be going back to his usual vendor as, even though the prices are higher, he's assured of the quality. I guess even to his palette (spelling?), a green tasting cigar is something he'd rather not have to age but to enjoy immediately. He's assured of getting this through this trusted vendor and would rather pay the price for what he knows is consistent satisfaction on his part. I guess I can't blame him really. If he doesn't hold the seller to exchanging the cigars or fears that there will be more of the same, well I guess its his decision. I'd hoped he would check into it further but he's told me that he'd rather trust who he trusts and leave this vendor alone. To each his own I guess.....


Darren



The Cuban cigar industry is not known for the best in quality assurance. Some factories are better than others but across the board they're average at best. A ring gauge being off by a very slight amount (depending on how its being measured) or a cigar lenth being slightly off is not, in itself, reason to discount them as being fake.....concerned yes. A slidetop lid being sealed upsidedown is not, in itself, reason to discount them as fake....concerned yes. A smoked cigar that one senses (??)** is a bit green is not, in itself, reason to discount them as fake....concerned yes.

** I felt I should sidenote that reading the sentence of "having smoked one you could sense that cigar is a bit green" is vague. IMO, "green" means young tobacco. Was it cuban tobacco? Was it close to the MAG taste profile? Smoking the cigar is far and above the real test so , IMO, that is where the rubber meets the road.

IMO, when you have a combination of red flags on a box of cuban cigars your pucker factor should rise. I personally would base my take on the situation by smoking one. If the cigar didn't fit the Mag profile I would ask the vendor to replace them. Bottom line, if its a "trusted source" there is little to worry about.
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PTownshend said:
Concerned about the smaller factors has me wondering what you are thinking (in so far as what you feel are the reasons to be "concerned" or what "concern" you have about those factors).


.... but he's told me that he'd rather trust who he trusts....
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I looked up the word "concern" and one of the definitions was: To cause anxiety or uneasiness. I would say that about nails it. Your term "smaller factors" equate to red flags for me and while one red flag would concern me its not enough, IMO, to make a sound decision on what I have assumed is the concern here, that the cigars are fake. All of the factors you mentioned do not mean that the cigars are fake. Every small factor you have mentioned has happened before. When a combination of them come together ones concern should rise. (I prefer saying the pucker factor comes into play. ;) )

The last quote of yours I made about trusting who you trust is very sound advice. I would have one eye wide open using any source you get from people on a BB board that you really don't know..... trust your friends long association smoking cuban cigars to know a legit source.
 
Thanks for your input. :) As I've probably explained before, the thoughts behind me posting this was for you the reader to read what is given and then give your impression of the situation. As I had hoped I'd cleared up before, it was to give the facts as I had them and for you to base your thoughts or ideas on this "situation", based solely on what you know and what your experiences were. Ted's decisions are pretty much set in stone, I merely did this to share with him what others thought and (personally) to learn and gain more knowledge in the process.

There was no basis of this discourse based on whether they were "fakes" or not, however your continual reitteration of this take on it has made this discussion that much more valuable a learning experience (for me, anyways) but still a bit frustrating as you don't seem to come to clear points of opinion or sharing of your thoughts as to why you might think this is so; I get a sense you are merely dancing around what you truly think instead of just taking what is given to you and coming out with your take on what to make of this, a final conclusion as to what you think this situation represents. What makes you feel this is about "fakes" versus maybe a mistake, internal inconsistencies, too young tabacco, etc.... ?? With all the factors given to you, what do you make of this? Thats all I'm asking. Check the answers of cigardawg and others above for the type of input I was trying to get.

Again, trust isn't the point behind this all... its about relating and sharing what your thoughts are on this topic. There's no right or wrong answer, hopefully a lively discussion based on your feedback and opinions and experiences.

Thanks again,
Darren
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I looked up the word "concern" and one of the definitions was: To cause anxiety or uneasiness. I would say that about nails it. Your term "smaller factors" equate to red flags for me and while one red flag would concern me its not enough, IMO, to make a sound decision on what I have assumed is the concern here, that the cigars are fake. All of the factors you mentioned do not mean that the cigars are fake. Every small factor you have mentioned has happened before. When a combination of them come together ones concern should rise. (I prefer saying the pucker factor comes into play. ;) )

The last quote of yours I made about trusting who you trust is very sound advice. I would have one eye wide open using any source you get from people on a BB board that you really don't know..... trust your friends long association smoking cuban cigars to know a legit source.
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He already did PT...

"IMO, when you have a combination of red flags on a box of cuban cigars your pucker factor should rise. I personally would base my take on the situation by smoking one. If the cigar didn't fit the Mag profile I would ask the vendor to replace them."
 
alexgtp said:
New MAG 46 come banded
The band should be red and gold and say H.upmann and habana on them.
if it is form whom i think it is there should sometimes be a sticker on it that is black and white that has a warning about smoking kills..LOL! Pm for exact details.

a yellow ribbon should have been wrapped around the cigars that says H. UPMANN in red and inder it in black it should say Magnum 46 and on either side of the H.UPMANN in red it should have their logo.

All cigars should be equal in length/ Ring guage of close to 46 and lenght. The cigars could be swollen thus giving it a thicker ring guage.
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The red Uppman bands must be new. My MAY 04 Mag 46s have the plain brown band.
 
Actually, I was looking more for the reason WHY he'd consider replacing them and why this group of factors cause him to base his decision on doing so. Just saying a combination of red flags would cause a pucker factor only states vaguely that he thinks there's a problem, not in any way explaining why he thinks its a problem and what conclusions he's drawn from this belief.

In one example above, several people agreed that these cigars may be over humidified, young tobacco. Thats more along the lines of what I was hoping for in posting this situation up here.

Darren

wasch_24 said:
He already did PT...

"IMO, when you have a combination of red flags on a box of cuban cigars your pucker factor should rise. I personally would base my take on the situation by smoking one. If the cigar didn't fit the Mag profile I would ask the vendor to replace them."
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None of this is really neccesary if the guy's been smoking Havanas for almost 30 years or if he has any type of relationship with his tobacconist. Real or fake, if he doesn't like them, send them back.
 
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