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MRSP vs Internet Pricing

cohibasurfer

cohibasurfer

one day older than dirt
Joined
Jan 7, 2001
Messages
8,439
Location
Cali
OK GP!

Instead of bringing up several passes were I believe this has happened and causing a ruckess in that respect. I'll give you an example of possibilities, trying to refrain from exact exchanges to keep the prior from happening. And before I begin, please understand this in no way is directed at you or bashing your, or anyone elses opinion. It is infact a tool too discuss what I see as a system that creates accidental problems. It is not a complete failure as a system by no means. It however can cause new passers to make judgement errors.

Example:

Take - Padron Anniversary Superior

Put -BAHIA MADURO GOLD Belicoso

Take - AF Don Carlos #2

put - Romeo Y Julieta Vintage VI Triangular


How would you say that sized up if it was in a pass?

MRSP says I put more than I took does it not?
 
Maybe, but I am too lazy to look it up right now. The MSRP may be higher, but the "intrinsic" value is lower. So it would only be fair in the eye of the beholder.
I use the prices at cigarweekly for msrp. Yeah I know, they are a little dated, but they are a snapshot in time of the prices. Then I account for avaiability, demand, quality, etc. I never use a local price if possible. Always the lowest internet price, not accounting for shipping, taxes, etc. Then I make sure I am giving %15 more. Just for wiggle room and to make the box nicer. I try to put a nice stick in the feed bag to make it fun for the originater. That's my 2 pennies.

Emo
 
FIRST: I'm not on any one side of this debate (yet), but my question is: Almost all of my domestic sticks come from local shops. Isn't it unfair to some degree that if a player in a pass pays local, retail - brick and mortar prices for sticks, then is told its only "worth" half or less because of the internet pricing?

A good example is the Domestic Trinidad's... Locally they sell for about $10 ea a stick, while online I've seen them for significantly less (I've seen them for about $3 or so a stick ea :0 )
 
Toaster,
If you use that method then the sticks you trade for should have a higher retail at your local shop as well. So in all actuality you would have to use their pricing on your takes as well as your puts, to keep with the apples for apples approach. It wouldn't be fair to use your shops retail for your put, and MSRP or net pricing for your take. That would also be similar to using higher net priced sites for a put, and lower net price sites for a take.
 
cohibasurfer said:
Toaster,
If you use that method then the sticks you trade for should have a higher retail at your local shop as well. So in all actuality you would have to use their pricing on your takes as well as your puts, to keep with the apples for apples approach. It wouldn't be fair to use your shops retail for your put, and MSRP or net pricing for your take. That would also be similar to using higher net priced sites for a put, and lower net price sites for a take.
Click to expand...
Exactly! This man knows what he is talking about.

Emo
 
emodx said:
Then I account for avaiability, demand, quality, etc. I never use a local price if possible.

Emo
Click to expand...
The only problem I have with your post Emo was this sentance. It is perfect until you say quality. That is subjective. And though it is a great tool, it can be used in arguement (and we have seen it before) to the advantage of the people trying to get over on the pass.
 
cohibasurfer said:
emodx said:
Then I account for avaiability, demand, quality, etc. I never use a local price if possible.

Emo
Click to expand...
The only problem I have with your post Emo was this sentance. It is perfect until you say quality. That is subjective. And though it is a great tool, it can be used in arguement (and we have seen it before) to the advantage of the people trying to get over on the pass.
Click to expand...
Well, in the hands of the right person it is a pro; in the hands of the wrong person is a con. Don't shoot the messenger! :0 :p This is how I do it. Take it, leave it, chop it up and put in a salad. LOL :sign:

Emo
 
emodx said:
Maybe, but I am too lazy to look it up right now. The MSRP may be higher, but the "intrinsic" value is lower. So it would only be fair in the eye of the beholder.
I use the prices at cigarweekly for msrp. Yeah I know, they are a little dated, but they are a snapshot in time of the prices. Then I account for avaiability, demand, quality, etc. I never use a local price if possible. Always the lowest internet price, not accounting for shipping, taxes, etc. Then I make sure I am giving %15 more. Just for wiggle room and to make the box nicer. I try to put a nice stick in the feed bag to make it fun for the originater. That's my 2 pennies.

Emo
Click to expand...
Cohibasurfer, Ill join in this gentlemans discussion :p

First I would need to know the rules of the Pass...Is it a relaxed Pass or a detailed pass? Did the Host mention details of his expectations of P/T related to exact values or rough estimates.

MSRP
Take - Padron Anniversary Superior MSRP $7.30 **** rating

Put -BAHIA MADURO GOLD Belicoso MSRP $7.50 **** rating

Take - AF Don Carlos #2 MSRP $11.00 **** rating

put - Romeo Y Julieta Vintage VI Triangular MSRP $11.50 **** rating

Using MSRP and the provided ratings by the customers the trade is probably fair especially if one puts an extra cigar in the mix as a gesture of generosity as many do. My next step would be consulting with a FOG, Pass Host, and any others I could get time from.

Good luck finding the retail prices for these as CI doesn't list them. I finally found them at Famous smoke after searching several sites.
......................................................................................................

RETAIL via Famous smoke.com
Take - Padron Anniversary Superior $9.80

Put -BAHIA MADURO GOLD Belicoso $8.79

Take - AF Don Carlos #2 $10.99

put - Romeo Y Julieta Vintage VI Triangular $7.40

Although both puts are less than the takes, the DC is a little more obvious and probably of concern to you. But I also noted that both P/T's were rated quite similiar on the site by the posters so at least one would be putting equal quality in both situations. Again, a check with the host would clear any potential questions and a nice extra stick would help out the situation. It would also depend on the taste of the Host. While some may value the DC more because of its stronger smoke, the RyJ might be valued by others who prefer a medium cigar. The Fuente as expected is higher retailed price because of the share of the market A/F has due to marketing techniques (limiting supply, etc.).

Again, Protical calls for all P/T's to be posted for qualification and a check with the Host, fog, etc. is always appropriate.

Emodox said it well to. Padding would have taken care of the retail question.
 
Toaster said:
FIRST: I'm not on any one side of this debate (yet), but my question is: Almost all of my domestic sticks come from local shops. Isn't it unfair to some degree that if a player in a pass pays local, retail - brick and mortar prices for sticks, then is told its only "worth" half or less because of the internet pricing?

A good example is the Domestic Trinidad's... Locally they sell for about $10 ea a stick, while online I've seen them for significantly less (I've seen them for about $3 or so a stick ea :0 )
Click to expand...
A good reason to use MSRP :D
 
cohibasurfer said:
Toaster,
If you use that method then the sticks you trade for should have a higher retail at your local shop as well. So in all actuality you would have to use their pricing on your takes as well as your puts, to keep with the apples for apples approach. It wouldn't be fair to use your shops retail for your put, and MSRP or net pricing for your take. That would also be similar to using higher net priced sites for a put, and lower net price sites for a take.
Click to expand...
In that situation Cohibasurfer is correct. I always say use your own store if they have both or If not I would look up the MSRP for both and again it would be apples vs. apples.
 
OK GP.
It's obvious we don't agree. But, that's not saying I'm in the know anymore than you are. WE both know how to pass, trade, smoke, have fun, and now it seems discuss a topic we disagree upon with good intalectual statements and tact. Shows it can be done. Bravo!
Now I would be interested in the opinion of others on the proposed P's& T's. If you were in a pass or the pass host for that matter. How would you view them. Please don't use I want people to try cigars they haven't so .... I'm talking on a level of fairness. I will be posting some different scenerios as well. So check back often. I will be here all zee week!

For the record pass rules are the norm.
 
Toaster said:
A good example is the Domestic Trinidad's... Locally they sell for about $10 ea a stick, while online I've seen them for significantly less (I've seen them for about $3 or so a stick ea :0 )
Click to expand...
This is by no means meant to be a thread jack. I think it shows how easily someone can (not Toaster) can justify why they traded the way they did. When someone takes/puts against the grain of the masses, they can always find a price somewhere to justify it. And... as we have seen before, they can always find someone to take their side and defend them even if it means being banned from the site.

With that said... my original intent of posting was to say that I will take all the TTT Trinidads you can get me for $3 each. :0
 
As GP pointed out, the MSRP says that is a good play, just barely but enough. However, if Famous shows retail making it a bad play, I would then go to a few more on-line sources and if all of them [or even the majority] agreed with Famous, i would make a different play.

We buy things at Market, not MSRP, generally speaking. But retail [Selling Price] can be very different from one town to the next, even from one SHOP to the next. Therefore Local is the worst you can use. Your local may be dead on with other retailers on one of your P&Ts in Question and totally off on the other with the norm, due to speacials offered within the region and such. On-line is World-Wide and that equates to "Universal" so use it (you do afterall have web access for pete's sake).


And lastly....

Emo wrote:
I use the prices at cigarweekly for msrp. Yeah I know, they are a little dated, but they are a snapshot in time of the prices. Then I account for avaiability, demand, quality, etc. I never use a local price if possible. Always the lowest internet price, not accounting for shipping, taxes, etc. Then I make sure I am giving %15 more. Just for wiggle room and to make the box nicer. I try to put a nice stick in the feed bag to make it fun for the originater.
Click to expand...

Now there you have it, do it right, go better than you find out you have to and as I have said before....

have Fun, do a good job, and :love: your Brother GarGuys
 
cohibasurfer said:
OK GP.
It's obvious we don't agree. But, that's not saying I'm in the know anymore than you are. WE both know how to pass, trade, smoke, have fun, and now it seems discuss a topic we disagree upon with good intalectual statements and tact. Shows it can be done. Bravo!
Now I would be interested in the opinion of others on the proposed P's& T's. If you were in a pass or the pass host for that matter. How would you view them. Please don't use I want people to try cigars they haven't so .... I'm talking on a level of fairness. I will be posting some different scenerios as well. So check back often. I will be here all zee week!

For the record pass rules are the norm.
Click to expand...
Cohibasurfer, Believe me I see both sides to this one and am not saying MSRP is perfect nor using retail for that matter is wrong. I just started using MSRP and have stck with it. I could just as easily switch my inventories to all retail from one source and not think much of it except to find the retail site that has the best inventory resources.

The best answer would be regardless of how you decide your P/T values make sure you are comparing apples to apples and are willing to check you work via fogs, other players, and especially the host.

Heck if I could find a site that listed both MSRP and Retail why I would post both on the web inventory:D


"intalectual statements and tact"....we must slipping :D
 
I am speaking as someone who has never participated in a pass, but it may be useful for you to hear my opinion and the reason I have not participated in a pass.

I like the idea of cigar passes, and I like the social aspects of cigar passes, but I do not like the great deal of bother associated with cigar passes. Everyone who smokes cigars has a different opinion as to each and every make, model and size of cigar. If someone puts an AF Don Carlos #2 in a pass, for example, in exchange for a Cuban Montecristo #2, I would not consider that to be a fair or equal trade even though I can buy the Montecristo for the same amount or less than I can buy the Don Carlos. Unfortunately, there is not any other objective factor, besides price, I can think of that could be used.

There are all kinds of factors that can be taken into consideration beyond price, but they are all subjective. What is rare in one part of country, may not be rare in another. What tastes good to me may not taste good to you. What appears to be a well constructed cigar to me, may not be a well constructed cigar to someone else. For example, I am fond of the Opus X and the Hemingway lines of AF. The problem is, the Opus X and Hemingway lines do not burn well for me. Some people may attribute this problem to quality, but I do not agree. I think it has more to do with the wrapper and shapes of the respective cigars in question. Cigar ratings are another problem. I agree with some of the ratings of some cigars in CA and Smoke magazine, but I disagree vehemently with the ratings of many other cigars.

You can always find someone who will disagree as to the relative worth of a cigar, based upon subjective factors. Price is still the only aspect of a cigar that has a degree of objectivity about it. I recognize, however, that price is not a perfect measure of the relative worth of a given cigar. The deep discounts that are sometimes offered on various makes of cigars by the large mail order houses demonstrates the inadequacy of using price as a measure.

What is the answer? I don't know, but until someone comes up with a more objective measure than price, what is there? And who will determine what price list will be used? In the meantime, I will keep asking friends and FOGs their opinions of cigars I have not tried, and I will keep buying singles and 5-packs until I am certain that I like a particular cigar (then I buy in bulk).

That's my meager .02.

Take care, Bacchus
 
cohibasurfer said:
BACCHUS,

Now what do you think of the purposed trade scenerio?
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My gut reaction is that I have never had a Bahia that could stand up to any Padron, and I have certainly never had any Romeo that could stand up to a Don Carlos. But that's my subjective opinion. What objective measure, other than price, can be used that is fair to everyone?
 
Well that's MRSP at it's finest ...LOL!

Come on people... post some opinions here.

Come on oh ye Elder's of a gentler race! Chime in!
 
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