Need Your Input

[Pugman1943]

I have a AW 281 winador. I purchased a NIST certified hygrometer after consulting with our MadMonk.

I've taken the hygrometer outside to compare against NOAA. I've set the hygrometer in the house to view our humidity. All appears normal.

I set it inside the humidor, NO beads or humidification of any kind, and it reads 67%.

It might go up one or down one as I add a box or a 5er, but I just tested it again for eight hours outside where it register 49%, brought it back it, placed in humi and next morning I'm looking at 67% again.

Sure would like you folks to tell me what's up.

Thanks, Pug

 

[MadMonk]

After you open the door? Any, or enough, cedar or other substrate to function as a buffer?

eta: oh wait..I'm slow today. Back is giving me a fit. Sounds like you're questioning why an empty wine cooler would read higher than outdoors? I don't know much about peltiers, but wondering if they cause condensation.

 

[Pugman1943]

The is NO cedar, only from about five boxes that have arrived, but it has done this for at least two months.

 

[MadMonk]

I'm guessing the cooler is changing the humidity. Just a guess, but from what I understand, within the realm of possibility. BBS or maybe some other owners will chime in. I specifically didn't get a cooled cabinet cause I suck at black magic and fighting gremlins. I just have a portable a/c unit in the room with the cabinet humidor.

 

[MNBrian]

Peltier don't increase or decrease humidity. There should be a drain plug to handle condensation, and if that is plugged (as would be advised with a Peltier cooler), you should get a consistent figure, albeit changing in RH with opening/closing and air circulation.

Where is your Coolidor stored?

What's the passive humidity in the room in which it is stored, or is that the previously stated 49%?

Do you have it hooked up to a temperature regulator so the Peltier turns on and off according to temp? If so, is it always off when you open the door (thus no air flow)?

You've got a conundrum Pug. I don't have any issue with my Peltier unit dropping humidity when I open the door.

Obviously it's not a bad thing. It's possible those boxes are providing passive humidity. Personally I'd toss beads in and see if it holds at the desired RH and be happy that my unit was too consistent...

Edited for dumb autocorrect

 

[Pugman1943]

The room is 53%. I open and close at least twice a day when I go hunting, might stay open 45 seconds. There is no condensation in the box, the drain hole is open.
Unit is in the back bedroom, actually the warmest room in the house,,but the room gets the a/c when it comes on. No temp regulator, always set for 66°. The last time I put in 69% beads the humidity went to 71%. Mind you I'm using a NIST hygrometer (whoppie).

I do have three shelfs ordered from our guy on this site, due in about a month.

Mind you, I'm not complaining, but it just seems strange.

 

[MNBrian]

Which area (top or bottom) are you reading humidity from?

You'd think humidity would make for heavier air and thus fall to the bottom but actually it's the opposite. Humid air rises to the top of the wineador. If you're beads are at 69 and at the bottom, reading 71 at the top might not be strange at all. Beads are keeping the bottom air at 69, and thus overhunidifying the air that rises.

My advice would be if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Put another hygro in there just to be sure and I'd go with 65 beads to keep everything under 70. If in the winter you notice some bigger swings in RH, consider plugging the drain. Otherwise, you lucked out! Took me 5 months to get my wineador rig just right. Still working on the new one.

 

[MadMonk]

Peltier don't increase or decrease humidity

This makes me scratch my head. If there is condensation and drainage hole, what is actually going on in a wine cooler? I've bought two for wine. Neither one lasted more than a year. I gave up, so I didn't learn a whole lot about them.

 

[MNBrian]

This makes me scratch my head. If there is condensation and drainage hole, what is actually going on in a wine cooler? I've bought two for wine. Neither one lasted more than a year. I gave up, so I didn't learn a whole lot about them.

Peltier coolers only function with air separation or severe temperature variation. They were originally built for computer processors which run extremely hot. Due to this heat, a peltier cooler can cool one side equally as well as it can distribute heat on the opposite side. If one side of the peltier is extremely hot, the other side can be extremely cool and vice versa.

Here's a great article on how the science (and balance) works. http://www.thermoelectric.com/2010/tech/tech.htm

The long and the short of it is this - If I put a peltier cooler in a piece of plywood and hold the plywood in the air, the temperature difference on either side will be essentially the same (as the same air is on both sides). It can only cool or heat as well as the temperature difference on either side. On the other hand, if I put a peltier cooler on a giant ice block, one side will be significantly colder, and thus it can (depending on which side is placed up/down) melt the ice or boil a pot of water. Because of this effect, and because wine coolers set peltier coolers in open air, the more air-tight the seal for a peltier, the more effectively it can create two different environments of air for heating/cooling.

The end result is there is very little loss or gain of moisture, because the ideal situation is a thermally sealed barrier between one side of the peltier and the other. That's also why conventional wisdom says "seal the drain hole" because then the same level of water (minus losses from door opening closing) stay in the same airtight/insulated environment.

This is also why compressors are not recommended. They do have air transfer between air groups, resulting in a loss of air you've humidified in order to bring in more air that has been cooled.

Hopefully this helps!

 

[Pugman1943]

Well, I sent this to Napa, Doc and Spad. The first two were unsure, but Trey said this is what they did on the B-52 so the toilet wouldn't overflow at high altitude.

You got to stop smoking that left handed grass dude. I can't afford to boil that much water, I'm out of plywood, there is no ice house in Dallas, so I guess I'll plug the drain hole and see what happens. Thanks for the tech input.

 

[George Scott]

I'll throw in my two cents. I think you need to start with sealing the cabinet no matter what else. If you don't have a sealed environment you have variables and will have a hard time troubleshooting what's going on. Plug the drain hole and any other intrusions from wires etc and make sure the door seal is good. Start there.

As far as all the opinions about cooling and different cooling systems, it should not matter on a perfectly sealed system (perfectly is the operative word here). If no moisture can get in or out then internal humidity should not change no matter what the cooling system is. Condensation is a by product of relative humidity and temperatures, and that's a whole other story and subject for discussion (don't want wet cigars), but overall humidity in the cabinet should not change as long as the box is perfectly sealed and there is no place for moisture to escape. In the case of a wood box, the moisture can work it's way into and through the wood eventually. A stainless steel or plastic cabinet, the moisture should be trapped. Opening the cabinet would be the only time it should escape.

 

[Napa_Smokes]

Well, I sent this to Napa, Doc and Spad. The first two were unsure, but Trey said this is what they did on the B-52 so the toilet wouldn't overflow at high altitude.

You got to stop smoking that left handed grass dude. I can't afford to boil that much water, I'm out of plywood, there is no ice house in Dallas, so I guess I'll plug the drain hole and see what happens. Thanks for the tech input.

I think you are mistaken as you never sent me anything Pug.