Opus X Maduro cigars

[moki]

At that CFC herf with Carlito, he explained a lot about Opus X cigars, and how and why the Opus X Maduro cigars are so rare, and will likely never be a production cigar.

When they first decided to grow the Opus X Rosado wrapper in the DR, no one thought it could be done... but a certain area on their 13 acre farm had just the right conditions to grow that seed.  In order to make it a Maduro, they had to grow it in a much smaller area on a hill, where it could get the maximum amount of sunlight each year, and they picked it much later than the regular wrapper.

Both of these factors caused it to build up the oils that lay the groundwork for a Maduro wrapper.  The extra growing time is also rough on the tobacco because it is subjected to the elements that much longer, so out of an already small crop, they get a smaller yield for that particular maduro.

They can't simply expand how much of it they grow, because just like for wine, the conditions have to be just right to yield the proper balance.  Their small (relatively speaking) farm grows the tobacco (if not always the wrapper) for all of the cigars they make.  He pointed out that it's not line ramping up production on an assembly line, there are just so many they can crank out.

For this reason, the Opus X Maduros are very likely to always be limited-production cigars... they need to be able to pump out 100's of thousands of cigars a year for even a *limited* production cigar like the Opus X.  The yield on the Maduro wrapper is fractions of that, he said at most they get 500 a year or so.

So they are reserved for charity auctions and special give-aways.  He didn't say "never" but he said it's unlikely it'll be a production cigar.

 

[lucasbuck]

Very informative. Thanks Andrew :thumbs:

 

[gkpk]

Great info Moki.

Sounds like another one of the very rare AF line.

 

[Monte]

Good thing I got my two boxes when I could....












Man... I wish!

Thanks moki. Now it makes me want to find some even more. :thumbs:

~Monte

 

[CoventryCat86]

Thanks Moki :thumbs:

Now THAT'S an Opus I'll bet I'd love

 

[moki]

Thanks Moki :thumbs:

Now THAT'S an Opus I'll bet I'd love

I'd send ya one but... DOH! Sorry, I sent it to someone else by accident.

 

[Distorted]

So what do they go for now? I'm pretty new to anything outside of what Drew Estate offers. Of course I just made a great trade at a new friends house. He really squared me away with some awesome smokes.
I have a new Business, Distorted Services, out of the Fort Drum Area. My friend told me about this place. Cool!

 

[BACCHUS]

Thanks for the information, but I am underwhelmed by Carlito's explanation. If AF's cigar sales fell off by 20% next year, I would be willing to bet beaucoup bucks that Opus X's, maduro and otherwise, would be in plentiful supply within 2 to 3 years. The Fuentes have done the best job of positioning their products and raising expectations of any cigar maker in history. When a dominican-made cigar sells for more than the finest contraband cuban cigars in this country, you have got to tip your hat to the marketing department of the house of Fuente.

 

[moki]

Thanks for the information, but I am underwhelmed by Carlito's explanation. If AF's cigar sales fell off by 20% next year, I would be willing to bet beaucoup bucks that Opus X's, maduro and otherwise, would be in plentiful supply within 2 to 3 years. The Fuentes have done the best job of positioning their products and raising expectations of any cigar maker in history.

I disagree completely -- I know people who have toured their facilities in the DR. Contrary to the popular myth, there is no stockpile of Opus X cigars anywhere. They also toured where the wrapper for the Opus X cigars are grown, and it is NOT a large area.

I regularly hear it bandied about that Fuente is all about marketing; and indeed, there is some market savvy there, which honestly the entire cigar industry could learn from. However, the overriding thing I've noticed is Carlito's passion about the products he produces.

The "special" cigars he produces are a result of him loving cigar making, and having fun playing with it, not the result of any conniving marketing ploys. That these limited edition cigars end up being coveted is more a testament of the product that Fuente produces than anything else.

There are many limited run and hard to obtain Macanudo cigars, but you don't hear about people going nuts trying to obtain them. Marketing alone can't do that.

 

[moki]

Just to add to this a bit more, most people don't seem to realize that the Opus X is a limited cigar; it's been that way from the start. The quantity they make, and the availability is about that of any such cigar... Cuban ELs, for instance, or Reservas.

 

[surferonthecrystalcoast]

Very interesting and informative! Thanks Moki!!!!


Brad

 

[BACCHUS]

Just to add to this a bit more, most people don't seem to realize that the Opus X is a limited cigar; it's been that way from the start. The quantity they make, and the availability is about that of any such cigar... Cuban ELs, for instance, or Reservas.

Moki, I don't want to argue about a product that we both enjoy. So, I will move on to other threads and blaspheme the holy name of Fuente no more.

 

[moki]

Moki, I don't want to argue about a product that we both enjoy. So, I will move on to other threads and blaspheme the holy name of Fuente no more.

nah, it's not a religion people can bag on Fuente all they want, I don't care, I just want it to be based on something real... seriously, if you have any factual, inside information I'd love to hear it. All of the inside info I've heard is contrary to what you've stated, though.

For instance, Fuente sells their cigars to retailers at a particular wholesale price, which is lower than the already relatively reasonable MSRP:

http://www.keenwebs.com/herfindex/opus.htm

...that Opus X cigars don't sell for MSRP is not Fuente's fault, nor do they see any extra money... the wholesale price remains the same regardless of what some dealers and online web retailers gouge people for.

 

[Matt R]

...that Opus X cigars don't sell for MSRP is not Fuente's fault,

That's not completely true, though I agree for the most part. The marketing of the Opus X cigar has created a demand and a mystique, warranted or not. This in turn drives up the price to consumers, from retailers who take advantage of it. There are more Opus on shelves now, more than I can ever remember. The mystique is waning as people realize that while they are good smokes, there are alternatives to the Opus X.

 

[moki]

...that Opus X cigars don't sell for MSRP is not Fuente's fault,

That's not completely true, though I agree for the most part. The marketing of the Opus X cigar has created a demand and a mystique, warranted or not. This in turn drives up the price to consumers, from retailers who take advantage of it. There are more Opus on shelves now, more than I can ever remember. The mystique is waning as people realize that while they are good smokes, there are alternatives to the Opus X.

I'd argue that marketing mystique alone cannot create the kind of demand where people will pay double or triple MSRP for the cigars... but sure, the popularity of the Opus X cigar has benefitted Fuente in a variety of ways, and there is some marketing involved.

But when people gripe about the cigar selling for 2-3x MSRP... Fuente doesn't see a dime of that gouging price. I have a friend who owns a cigar shop, I've seen the prices they pay wholesale per box (which varies from state to state), and the price is quite reasonable. Again, it is below the MSRP (not counting taxes), which has some built-in profit for dealers already:

http://www.keenwebs.com/herfindex/opus.htm

That some cigar stores and online retailers are charging so much over MSRP is actually something that Fuente has taken action against in the past. Once the wholesale price is paid for the box, Fuente is done, they don't see another dime, even if the retailer doubles the price before they hit the showroom floor.

 

[Matt R]

No argument that Fuente sees no "extra" profit from retailers who charge more than what their MSRP is. But, limited supply or not, which is less true now than it was 5 years ago, the marketing of the Opus X cigar has been the main reason that consumers have been willing to pay a premium for these cigars. Mind you, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, quite to the contrary. Carlito is not only passionate about his cigars, he is also very good marketer. It's his passion that has pushed the envelope on cigar manufacturing. Without it, Fuente would have never had a Dominican wrapper to put on the Opus X. You'll get no argument from me about his passion for the industry. He's a master at what he does in the fields, the barns, the rolling rooms and behind the desk.

 

[moki]

No argument that Fuente sees no "extra" profit from retailers who charge more than what their MSRP is. But, limited supply or not, which is less true now than it was 5 years ago, the marketing of the Opus X cigar has been the main reason that consumers have been willing to pay a premium for these cigars. Mind you, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, quite to the contrary. Carlito is not only passionate about his cigars, he is also very good marketer. It's his passion that has pushed the envelope on cigar manufacturing. Without it, Fuente would have never had a Dominican wrapper to put on the Opus X. You'll get no argument from me about his passion for the industry. He's a master at what he does in the fields, the barns, the rolling rooms and behind the desk.

I agree with everything you've said... except I'm not sure I agree that marketing is the main reason why people are willing to purchase Opus X cigars at a premium. I certainly don't go back to buy more because of the marketing, I do so because I enjoy the hell out of that cigar.

Davidoff's marketing of the Zino Platinum Crown and Scepter series is an example: they are marketing the hell out of it, pricing it through the roof, yet people really aren't going for it in droves. Why? Is it that their marketing sucks compared to Fuente's? I don't think so... I think it is because the cigar just isn't the exceptional.

On a sidenote, it's just an important thing to drive home here: the higher prices you see for Opus X cigars (double the MSRP, for instance), this is not money that goes to Fuente. Retailers and resellers are the ones getting greedy and gouging. Find yourself a good dealer.

 

[Lumberg]

I think the rarity factor is what does it. No matter how dumb, if something is perceived as rare it becomes more desirable. It's a keeping up with the Joneses thing.

I mean look at all the people on CF that love to publish pictures of their rare Opus stashes. If the sticks were not rare, only expensive, do you think there would be as much cachet?

I was wowed by the the whoel Opus mystique when I first joined CP and made it my mission to try to get some. Now I have a bunch. I like smoking them. I would like to always have some on hand. But there are plenty of other good smokes put there.

 

[moki]

I think the rarity factor is what does it. No matter how dumb, if something is perceived as rare it becomes more desirable. It's a keeping up with the Joneses thing.

That's certainly true to an extent. Around the turn of the century, lobster was consider unfit for human consumption in the US -- they were caught and ground up and put into cattle feed. They became rare, and people started to want to eat 'em.

However, I don't think rarity alone does it. There are plenty of things that are rare that people could care less about obtaining. There has to be some inherent value there to begin with, otherwise no marketing campaign in the world is going to do the trick.

I mean look at all the people on CF that love to publish pictures of their rare Opus stashes.  If the sticks were not rare, only expensive, do you think there would be as much cachet?

Regardless of this, that they are rare and/or expensive doesn't translate into more money for Fuente. They sell them to cigar shops at a fixed price. I'll admit that if something is both good and rare, that definitely helps with the demand.

But you do need both. There are plenty of rare cigars out there... you don't see too many people going nuts and bending over backwards to pick up some rare one-off Garcia Vega's.

The same thing happens with Cuban ELs -- people scramble to get them, and horde them... is it just because they are Cuban, and limited edition? That's part of it, but it's also because in general, they tend to be damn good.

I do concur with you that there are plenty of excellent smokes out there. I'd put Padrón 1926/1964 right up there with Opus X cigars, and they can be equally hard to obtain, and have premiums attached to them. Padrón is much more low-key than Fuente, and yet the demand is there, and they are very rare cigars, especially the 1926s.

The last time my local shop got 1926s in stock, he put the box aside, and sold it to preferred customers... it never even hit the shelf. Opus X's did hit the shelf, though were sold only 2 at a time. Padrón's marketing savvy? I don't think so... as with the Opus X's, they are damn fine cigars.

 

[lbrief]

Regardless of this, that they are rare and/or expensive doesn't translate into more money for Fuente. They sell them to cigar shops at a fixed price.

That’s debatable. I would argue that the Opus rarity and mystique does in fact translate into more money for Fuente. You are too focused on what profit they may or may not make per box of Opus. But, that concern is irrelevant.

Opus, via its rarity and excessive retail pricing, has been elevated to the “Holy Grail” of all cigars. And when smokers can’t obtain it, they instinctively revert to obtaining any other Fuente cigar. Fuente’s pretty much sell rapid fire regardless of the particular model (excepting, possibly the “It’s a Boy/Girl” labels).

Fuente has the luxury of a consistently predictable business model. They have they luxury of charging 2x and 3x the arguable value for their low-end cigars. Fuente knows that all of its inventory will move no matter what. And the demand all flows downward from the elusive Opus.

The fact is, they could give the Opus away to cigar retailers absolutely free of charge and still make substantial profits. The Opus is their “lost-leader” everything else is cash crop.