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Padron 1964 Aniversario/Anniversary

Generally, cigars improve with age. I have smoked pre Castro Cubans that have been absolutely sublime. The same cannot always be said for the 1964. Many of these cigars are losing their flavor. I am happy to say that I have only found this to be true once, but after speaking to a member of the Padron family I am sad to say it is a reality. For some reason these cigars hit their peak around 10 years or so and then begin to decline. Padron has a stockpile of vintage 1964's that they cannot sell because they have lost their flavor. So, as they say, smoke em if you got em.

I have to strongly disagree. I've had a number of early and mid 1990's Padróns, and I did not find that they were "losing their flavor" any more or any less than any other marca.

I'm aging the Millenniums that I'm sitting on until 2010 for a reason... I expect them to be fantastic to my tastes by then.

Who @ Padrón told you that they have a stockpile of 1964s that they can't sell? This doesn't make much sense to me, as these cigars have always been in high demand since their introduction. It seems rather unlikely to me that they are sitting on stockpiles of a cigar line that retailers grovel to obtain... at what point would they ever have had a surplus?

PADRON ANNIVERSARY 1964 CIRCA 1995 - MADURO
PYRAMID

This cigar is actually from 1999 or later, not 1995. Take a look at the printing on the band... they switched it from "Anniversario" to "Anniversary" in 1999.

PADRON ANNIVERSARY 1964 CIRCA 1999 - MADURO
TORPEDO

This cigar is actually from 2001 or later, not 1999. The second band in evidence on this cigar wasn't used until February 2001.


First let me start off by saying I'm flattered someone would take the time to research the information I posted on this site. Its nice to know that the CP community is not only interested in cigar reviews, but reviews that are factual. In a previous reply a member challenged some of the facts that were reported in the review I posted. To that, here is my reply:

Before reading further I would like to inform you that all the information that was gathered for my original post was from a member of the Padron family who got his information directly from Jorge Padron.

In regards to Padron 1964's losing flavor, this is a fact. It is unfortunate, but a fact nonetheless. The reason has not been determined, but it has plagued some of the vintage 1964's. Most manufacturers will keep some of a particular production in house, unreleased. This isn't kept because of a surplus, it is kept for a variety of other reasons such as quality control, special events, etc. The demand for a particular cigar has nothing to do with keeping stock in house.

According to the information posted on vitolas.net, They added José Padrón's signature to the back of the band in 1999, and were printing both "Anniversary" and "Anniversario" bands overlapping this time period. If there is no signature on the back, it is either pre-1999, or it is fake. As I wrote in my review, I kept the band from the cigar I smoked that night. As you can see in the pics below, there is no signature on the back of the band. This would mean that the cigar I smoked was pre 1999. Also, the site never states the switch occurred in 1999. All it states is Padron was printing both bands at that time.

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gallery_7858_1025_29458.jpg

gallery_7858_1025_9390.jpg


In regards to the last cigar in my review, the cigar in question was indeed from 2001. It turns out I marked the box incorrectly.

Lastly, Id like to elaborate on the issue of why Padron no longer uses the name Aniversario. The reason the cigar had a name change was due to Davidoff's legal right to use the name. After contacting Padron, the lawsuit was dropped and Padron agreed to change the name of their cigar.

I hope this post has cleared up any discrepancies. Thanks again to the CP community.
 
Before reading further I would like to inform you that all the information that was gathered for my original post was from a member of the Padron family who got his information directly from Jorge Padron.

In regards to Padron 1964's losing flavor, this is a fact. It is unfortunate, but a fact nonetheless. The reason has not been determined, but it has plagued some of the vintage 1964's.

Okay, but Padróns "losing their flavor" is not a fact. I have a number of Padróns from the mid 1990s, including 1964 Anniversarios, and they have not lost their flavor. It might be subjective, but it certainly isn't fact.

Most manufacturers will keep some of a particular production in house, unreleased. This isn't kept because of a surplus, it is kept for a variety of other reasons such as quality control, special events, etc. The demand for a particular cigar has nothing to do with keeping stock in house.

Sure, this makes sense to me, and Fuente and other manufacturers do hold back stock for various reasons... but why would you say that they "can't sell these cigars because they lost their flavor"... it doesn't make any sense, because they didn't save these cigars in order to sell them later anyway.

According to the information posted on vitolas.net, They added José Padrón's signature to the back of the band in 1999, and were printing both "Anniversary" and "Anniversario" bands overlapping this time period. If there is no signature on the back, it is either pre-1999, or it is fake. As I wrote in my review, I kept the band from the cigar I smoked that night. As you can see in the pics below, there is no signature on the back of the band. This would mean that the cigar I smoked was pre 1999. Also, the site never states the switch occurred in 1999. All it states is Padron was printing both bands at that time.

Vitolas.net is my web site... the information I gathered from Jorge Padrón was that during 1999, they were using bands with both "Anniversario" and "Anniversary" on the 1964 line (which is also the year they added his signature to the back of the bands). They were using up their old stock of "Anniversario" bands... and used the bands with "Anniversary" on them from then on... and added his signature to the back of the band later on that year (on the "Anniversary" bands). That would date that cigar to 1999, since that is when they switched from "Anniversario" to "Anniversary".

In regards to the last cigar in my review, the cigar in question was indeed from 2001. It turns out I marked the box incorrectly.

Yep, that makes sense.

Lastly, Id like to elaborate on the issue of why Padron no longer uses the name Aniversario. The reason the cigar had a name change was due to Davidoff's legal right to use the name. After contacting Padron, the lawsuit was dropped and Padron agreed to change the name of their cigar.

I hope this post has cleared up any discrepancies. Thanks again to the CP community.

I have not heard of, nor been able to find any information on the name change from "Anniversario" to "Anniversary" being the result of a lawsuit. Do you have more information you can share on this?

I have tried searching Google, Cigar Aficionado, etc. but to no avail. It also seems a little strange to me that a word on its own could be a trademark (it'd be a very weak one, if that).
 
In regards to the last cigar in my review, the cigar in question was indeed from 2001. It turns out I marked the box incorrectly.

Lastly, Id like to elaborate on the issue of why Padron no longer uses the name Aniversario. The reason the cigar had a name change was due to Davidoff's legal right to use the name. After contacting Padron, the lawsuit was dropped and Padron agreed to change the name of their cigar.

I hope this post has cleared up any discrepancies. Thanks again to the CP community.


If there was a 'lawsuit', it would be listed as being filed somewhere!

Otherwise it was more of a 'discussionhttp://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/001I7WQ2Q6g2z/340x.jpg'! LOL
 
Well this is where I bow out and leave the discussion to the CP community. Thanks for reading.
 
Well this is where I bow out and leave the discussion to the CP community. Thanks for reading.

???

I'd much rather you add to the discussion. Obviously the issue of whether the cigars lose their taste is a subjective one.

However regarding the age of that particular cigar, and the other issues I've mentioned, I don't care if I'm right or if you're right -- I'd prefer that we know what is right.

So regarding the lawsuit, if you have an additional information, please let us know. Ditto the age of the cigar, and so on.
 
Well this is where I bow out and leave the discussion to the CP community. Thanks for reading.


:( Please don't leave the discussion. We would love to hear your experience more.

Thanks.
 
Well this is where I bow out and leave the discussion to the CP community. Thanks for reading.


One thing the we ask, when posting such a statement(i.e. referring to a lawsuit), is to have the proof behind it.

Rumors was a great album, but they don't do well on CP. We like the facts.

I'm not sure why you are choosing to 'bow out' and not add definitive information or retract the statement citing no hard facts.

This leave the issue hanging and questions remain about what is now considered a 'rumor', one that appears to be started in the reviews here and on CL.

Please feel free to rejoin us to help figure this out.
 
Message from DesertRat: I've searched legal and news databases that have over 100,000,000 articles in them and nothing is popping up with the terms "padron" and "anniversario" or trademark violation etc... if there was a suit over the name it is certainly well hidden

There was this lawsuit, which had nothing to do with the name "Anniversario" or Davidoff:

http://people.ambrosiasw.com/~andrew/cigar...ron_lawsuit.jpg

He did turn up this rather extensive history article on Padrón, which has no mention of any lawsuit with Davidoff (or anyone else) over the name "Anniversario".

Lacking any further evidence, I'd have to say that this is firmly in the "rumor" category.

.....

Copyright 2004, The Miami Herald. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News. For information on republishing this content,contact us at (800) 661-2511 (U.S.), (213) 237-4914 (worldwide), fax(213) 237-6515, or e-mail reprints@krtinfo.com.

To see more of The Miami Herald -- including its homes, jobs, cars and other classified listings -- or to subscribe to the newspaper, go to http://www.herald.com.

Dec. 13--Jose Orlando Padron's memories are still fresh from the turbulent days more than two decades ago when his Little Havana cigar factory, Padron Cigars, was bombed four times.

Company founder Padron had just returned from a trip to Cuba where he was part of a group that negotiated with Fidel Castro for the release of hundreds of political prisoners. A photographer captured him handing the Cuban leader one of his cigars, and after the photo was published in Miami, anti-Castro extremists called for a boycott of his business, defaced his building with tar and bombed his factory.

But Padron Cigars has survived the bombings, the ups and downs of the tobacco industry, hurricanes that flattened crops and more through its 40-year history.

The company, which recently opened a new headquarters at 1575 SW 1st St. across from its old Flagler Street tabaqueria, projects sales of $16 million for 2004, according to Padron. Moreover, all of the brand's varieties -- which are currently rolled in Nicaragua and Honduras -- have notched a 90-plus score in Cigar Aficionado magazine's coveted annual ranking.

"They have always maintained a unique taste, and the quality of the cigars has always been extraordinary. They smoke well; they burn well," says Gordon Mott, Cigar Aficionado executive editor.

An emphasis on quality, rather than quantity, is one of the keys to the company's longevity, says Padron.

"We've never fallen on the trap like other manufacturers that produce, produce and produce to respond to the growing demand, as if we were making churros," says the 78-year-old Padron. "We've always protected our family brand; we've cherished it like the little girl of our family."

So the company has never been in a hurry to increase production. In fact, in 1981, Padron sold 4.5 million hand-rolled cigars, almost the same as the company will sell this year. But revenue has increased through the years and Padron is predicting a record year in 2005.

All told, Padron has sold close to 150 million cigars since 1964.

Mott said that during the peak of the cigar boom in the mid- 1990s, when most big cigar companies ramped up production, Padron stuck with its previous output despite overwhelming demand.

And that has added to the cachet of Padron cigars. Today, there are 800 retailers on a waiting list across the United States who want to carry Padron's hand-crafted cigars, according to company president, Jorge Luis Padron, the 36-year-old son of Jose Orlando.

Adds Mott: "They've been determined to stick to their bottom line, which is high quality at [an] affordable price."

The Padron family has been involved in the tobacco industry since the late 1800s, when Jose Orlando's grandfather, Damaso Padron, emigrated from the Canary Islands to Cuba and began growing tobacco in Pinar del Rio.

The founder of the Miami-based company was born on a tobacco plantation. As a curious, self-driven child he was quick to learn the art of curing Cuban-seed tobacco.

So when he left Cuba two years after the 1959 Cuban Revolution, he took with him the techniques he had inherited.

"I came to Miami and I couldn't find good cigars," acknowledges Padron. "So I got the idea that I could make a cigar for Cubans in Miami so that they might miss the island -- but not its cigars."

Forty years ago, the elder Padron launched his company with $600 in savings.

For many years, Padron concentrated his business mostly in the Miami market, catering to the local Cuban community, although he had some mail-order business across the country.

Even during the boycott in the early 1980s -- which he deems unjust because he says it was Castro who asked to try his cigar, not he who offered him one -- most Cuban exiles have supported the company and its cigars, Padron says.

"It's a nostalgic carry-over from the old days," says Manruco Perez-Benitoa, 66, a long-time family friend who has been smoking puros (as cigars are known in Spanish) since he was 16 in Cuba. "Theirs is truly what most resembles a Cuban cigar, and believe me, I've tested a bunch of them."

In the early 1990s, Padron and his son decided to expand distribution and go national.

Cuban smokers in South Florida were getting older, so the Padrons worried about losing their niche by just concentrating on the local market. It wasn't easy to make inroads nationally at first, because at the time the general public was not accustomed to such strong cigars made from sun-grown tobacco.

"I was confident that we had good products to sell," says Jorge Luis Padron. The strategy was to market the high-quality cigars in the lower end of the price range to encourage customer loyalty.

Because Padron Cigars, which also operates under the name Piloto Cigars, grows its own tobacco in Nicaragua and Honduras, does its own sorting, processing, manufacturing and distribution, the cost of production is less, he says.

The price of a hand-rolled Padron cigar ranges from $2 to $25, depending on its size and variety.

Devoted fans of Padron's products include Jack McKeon, the Florida Marlins manager, who is often seen with a couple of Anniversary and Millennium Padron cigars in his shirt pocket. Unless he's desperate, McKeon says, "I don't smoke anything else but Padron."

In fact, after the Marlins won the World Series last year and the team was invited to the White House, McKeon brought some of his favorite puros to President Bush, he recalls.

"They [the Padrons] have faced battles and fights, but they battled back and always got it right," McKeon says. "That persistence in the family makes them want to be the best."

In addition to the bombings that rocked the business from 1979 to 1983, Padron Cigars also encountered political problems in Nicaragua where the family had extensive tobacco holdings. During the Sandinista Revolution in the 1980s, the Padron factory in Nicaragua was burned.

Years later, when the United Stated declared an embargo against Nicaraguan exports, the backbone of the business dwindled and the elder Padron had to temporarily move all operations to Honduras.

Although most of the company's operations are in Central America, the Miami headquarters and distribution center employ around 40 people, including Padron's daughter Elizabeth, 53; son Orlando Jr., 49, and three grandchildren.

As for the encounter in Cuba that brought havoc to his life, Padron said that although Castro was partial to tobacco that he grew, he tried the Padron cigar "and said that it was good. And for that, he congratulated me."

.....
 
I'd much rather you add to the discussion. Obviously the issue of whether the cigars lose their taste is a subjective one.

If we were talking about a glass of Coke, a person could easily argue that the drink loses its flavor after 'x' amount of time; due to loss of carbonation. Cigars may be more complex, but still, most people agree that they peak somewhere, and then start losing flavor. Is that a fair statement?

I'm just wondering if you would agree that at some point a cigar's flavor begins to deteriorate, or if you would argue that the entire subject is, in fact, subjective.
 
I'd much rather you add to the discussion. Obviously the issue of whether the cigars lose their taste is a subjective one.

If we were talking about a glass of Coke, a person could easily argue that the drink loses its flavor after 'x' amount of time; due to loss of carbonation. Cigars may be more complex, but still, most people agree that they peak somewhere, and then start losing flavor. Is that a fair statement?

I'm just wondering if you would agree that at some point a cigar's flavor begins to deteriorate, or if you would argue that the entire subject is, in fact, subjective.

I can subjectively say the 60s era Padron cigar that some generous dude wasted on my billy-goat palate was both strong and full of flavor.
 
I'd much rather you add to the discussion. Obviously the issue of whether the cigars lose their taste is a subjective one.

If we were talking about a glass of Coke, a person could easily argue that the drink loses its flavor after 'x' amount of time; due to loss of carbonation. Cigars may be more complex, but still, most people agree that they peak somewhere, and then start losing flavor. Is that a fair statement?

I'm just wondering if you would agree that at some point a cigar's flavor begins to deteriorate, or if you would argue that the entire subject is, in fact, subjective.

Yes and no. Taste is something that I have a very hard time talking in absolutes about, and thus try to avoid it. I still do sometimes, but it's mostly just when I'm being careless. For instance, what is not spicy to me might be mouth-burning spicy to you; I hate broccoli, you may love it. Taste is very personal.

For instance, I have had a lot of very old Padróns... and I haven't found that properly stored Padróns lose their flavor at all. Indeed, in this initial review, the reviewer loved the 1994-5 Padrón... so at least to him, that one cigar didn't lose its flavor either.

I know many people who will not smoke Cuban cigars until they are at least 5 years old. I also know others that love the fresh Cuban cigar taste/flavor, and would rather NOT age their cigars.

I also find it very, very hard to make broad generalizations like "These cigars lose their flavor after XX years" because you really need to base that judgement on quite a few samples. Having one cigar doesn't mean anything; it might not have been stored properly, it might not have tasted that great to begin with, etc.

We've seen many, many cases here where people have reviewed one cigar, hated it... and then tried another few samples from known-good stock, and loved it. Recently we saw this with Macion Grey's Añejo reviews, but it's happened with many others as well. A single cigar experience -- good or bad -- doesn't mean a whole lot.

But it also doesn't really make any sense that tobacco leaf would have an expiration date. Sure, it might have a peak in terms of flavor/enjoyment, and that peak will vary from person to person, but the idea that the cigars are just going to be crap after they "expire" doesn't make much sense to me.

So to be able to make a statement like XXXX cigars lose their flavor after XXXX years, you'd really need:

-- To have smoked a fairly large sample of said cigars (at least a dozen)
-- The sample would have to be from cigars that were stored well
-- The sample would also have to be from different boxes that have been stored differently

...and even then, the final judgement is relatively subjective. All that I can say is that for me, the Padróns that I have which are very old do not lose their flavor. I base this on smoking several boxes worth of Padróns that are over 10 years old, from a variety of boxes of said cigars.

I don't think it's a case where "the soda goes flat" but rather "the taste changes over time... what tastes do you like?"... with the caveat that without a large sample size, the impressions are really just singular, and can't be applied broadly.
 
I'd much rather you add to the discussion. Obviously the issue of whether the cigars lose their taste is a subjective one.

If we were talking about a glass of Coke, a person could easily argue that the drink loses its flavor after 'x' amount of time; due to loss of carbonation. Cigars may be more complex, but still, most people agree that they peak somewhere, and then start losing flavor. Is that a fair statement?

I'm just wondering if you would agree that at some point a cigar's flavor begins to deteriorate, or if you would argue that the entire subject is, in fact, subjective.

Yes and no. Taste is something that I have a very hard time talking in absolutes about, and thus try to avoid it. I still do sometimes, but it's mostly just when I'm being careless. For instance, what is not spicy to me might be mouth-burning spicy to you; I hate broccoli, you may love it. Taste is very personal.

For instance, I have had a lot of very old Padróns... and I haven't found that properly stored Padróns lose their flavor at all. Indeed, in this initial review, the reviewer loved the 1994-5 Padrón... so at least to him, that one cigar didn't lose its flavor.

I also find it very, very hard to make broad generalizations like "These cigars lose their flavor after XX years" because you really need to base that sample on quite a few samples. Having one cigar doesn't mean anything; it might not have been stored properly, it might not have tasted that great to begin with, etc.

But it also doesn't really make any sense that tobacco leaf would have an expiration date. Sure, it might have a peak in terms of flavor/enjoyment, and that peak will vary from person to person, but the idea that the cigars are just going to be crap after they "expire" doesn't make much sense to me.

So to be able to make a statement like XXXX cigars lose their flavor after XXXX years, you'd really need:

-- To have smoked a fairly large sample of said cigars (at least a dozen)
-- The sample would have to be from cigars that were stored well
-- The sample would also have to be from different boxes that have been stored differently

...and even then, the final judgement is relatively subjective. All that I can say is that for me, the Padróns that I have which are very old do not lose their flavor. I base this on smoking several boxes worth of Padróns that are over 10 years old, from a variety of boxes of said cigars.

I don't think it's a case where "the soda goes flat" but rather "the tastes change, and what tastes do you like"... with the caveat that without a large sample size, the impressions are really just singular, and can't be applied broadly.


Andrew covered it all there in a nut shell.

The most important factor is the storage of the actual cigar over the period of time. I can have a box of x cigars from 2002 and Andrew has the same box. My preference is to store them at 55 degrees and 65% humidty, he likes them at 65 degrees and 58% humidty. Will those cigars smoke the same assuming they are from the same day and roller?

Why did the original poster decide to stop the dialog? It was one of the better ones we have had here in a long time.
 
Why did the original poster decide to stop the dialog? It was one of the better ones we have had here in a long time.

Dunno man... it's a shame. He said he'd leave the discussion to the CP community... I thought he was part of the CP community.
 
I don't think it's a case where "the soda goes flat" but rather "the taste changes over time... what tastes do you like?"... with the caveat that without a large sample size, the impressions are really just singular, and can't be applied broadly.

I agree. I haven't been smoking cigars that long, so the subject is of some considerable interest to me. I can only say I've narrowed down a couple types of cigars and the age at which I 'most' enjoy them. Otherwise, I've relied on friends with more experience and with similar tastes.
 
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