Pandora Radio for Cigars

[Anthem]

If you are not hip to this:

www.pandora.com

Then you should be. In summary, it is a free radio station that lets you plug in types of music or artists you like and creates and finds new ones for you. So you may type in "The Beetles", and you it will play their songs for you, but also gives you direction into what else you may like in that style. After all, A Hard Day's Night is a great record, but not 50 times in a row. This is a custimization of songs tailored to you. Not to be confused with file sharing, this only lets you listen, no free downloads or illegal stuff. that said, it does point you in the direction to buy from retailers if you want.

So, what if an application like this could be made with cigars. You tech guys could think of ways to do this I am sure. Example, I Love Diamond Crown Maximus. So, I use the cigar app to type in Diamond Crown Maximus and it references me to say Olivia MB, or something that is like the DCM, but maybe I had not heard of.

I know a lot of us here have our ears close to the ground with new cigars and information, but the vast majority of smokers are not.

So, I am just day dreaming here, and if nothing else sharing another cool site for brothers who like music. That said, I would love it if I saw a similar ciagr application. If for no other reason to give us all one more interesting thing to talk about.

Enjoy.

Much care,

 

[Delta]

That is a great idea. It would help me as a noon.

-posted from my iPhone with pandora

 

[stogieman]

I've been using Pandora for quite some time now. What's cool is where ever you are at and you log in, your favorites are always there....... :thumbs:

 

[Anthem]

I've been using Pandora for quite some time now. What's cool is where ever you are at and you log in, your favorites are always there....... :thumbs:

I agree.

It would be nice in the cigar world if say, I was in a place I could smoke ISOM and wanted a comparison to something else. Just open up the blackberry.iPhone and there you go.

I wonder how much work it is to gather and reference all that info. Hundreds of hours I am sure.

 

[cigar_skip]

Been using Pandora since it was in beta. I have it piped thru the house when i'm on & off the 'puter. Has turned me onto several new artists that I have bought there cd's.

 

[Not A Nice Person]

It would be nice in the cigar world if say, I was in a place I could smoke ISOM and wanted a comparison to something else. Just open up the blackberry.iPhone and there you go.

I wonder how much work it is to gather and reference all that info. Hundreds of hours I am sure.

*raises hand*

I volunteer.

~Boar

 

[jgohlke]

I have a couple of playlists on Pandora that I play at work. I work on a project with lots of ex-military types, so one day, after a guy was looking over my shoulder at some other stuff I was doing for work, I realized that I should rename my "stoner" playlist....so I edited the name and added a ", eugene" to it.

 

[pjwinters11]

Yeah Pandora is one of my favorite apps. I use it all the time when I am walking around campus, and a cigar style Pandora would be a great idea!

 

[Anthem]

Yeah Pandora is one of my favorite apps. I use it all the time when I am walking around campus, and a cigar style Pandora would be a great idea!

I am sure there is not a million dollars in it, but I would think it would be a usable app.

 

[Grinn]

I ran into this forum post when I was looking to see if there was such an application. I'm actually a programmer and have the means to produce such a thing, but I'm not entirely sure if it's possible. See, although music (like cigar making) is an art-form, it does have certain absolute and measurable traits, such as tempo, types of instruments utilized, etc. I'm no aficionado of cigars but I don't know that most of the defining traits of cigars (sweetness, bite, draw, finish, etc.) can be measured with absolution. Thoughts?

 

[oscar]

it would be prettty cool to have a cigar station where you can sit down and enjoy a cigar while listening to pandora favorites

 

[Grinn]

The idea actually is a site and/or mobile app where you can tell it what cigars you like and it will suggest similar cigars for you to try. As you try new cigars you "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" them and it learns what you do and don't like based on those votes... Much like how Pandora does with music.

 

[{tpc}]

The idea actually is a site and/or mobile app where you can tell it what cigars you like and it will suggest similar cigars for you to try. As you try new cigars you "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" them and it learns what you do and don't like based on those votes... Much like how Pandora does with music.

I like the idea! That said your "likes" are subjective. That is the difficult part. A solution might be to start with a vast database of cigars, and allow users to input what they think a suitable comparison is. Like say you smoke a Chatue Fuente Sungrown, and it reminds you of a ....oh I dunno, a Rocky Patel Sungrown. Assuming both are in the database you could rate the Fuente with a thumbs up or thumbs down and then also select the Rocky Patel as something similar. The next user comes along and says I like Rocky Patel Sungrown and it suggests Chatue Fuente Sungrown for them. The database grows and grows. You could also have a place where a user could suggest adding a cigar to the database that isn't there, provided they do it in the correct format or something.

The real issue is how to handle when say most users think cigar A is similar to cigar B but a handlful think it compares to cigar C or D. I suppose you could limit choices to length and ring gauge, or something like that but it might not be all emcompassing.

Of course I don't know how Pandora works. Are the suggestions mostly unique to the user but it pulls them from a general database somewhere in the "cloud"? They must have an algorithm that makes it easy, but with music there is so much out there already in the cloud in databases and categorized by genre, artist, etc etc. Like Matt said, probably hundreds of hours trying to pull together something similar for cigars. I'm sure this is the largest hurdle.

 

[Pipe Smoker]

That sounds like a great idea, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to implement it.

One thing I have seen on some pipe tobacco forums are threads tilted "If you like ________ try ________ " and each post will be a member who has tried two similar tobaccos or will have identified one tobacco that has similar basic components as a common tobacco but a more complex overall flavor. Then once enough posts have been made the OP would create a directory like the pinned review threads in the Cigar Reviews forum.

For example: If you like Patel 15th Anniversary try Padron 1926.

Or: If you like the Tatuaje Sieres P you owe it to yourself to try the Tatuaje Havana VI.

 

[MrAnderson41]

Another way to think about the algorithm that would be required would be to try and emulate Amazon's algorithm instead of Pandora's.

My understanding is that Pandora relies on a database (the music genome project) to compare the traits of the songs you like to songs in the database and then suggest new songs based on these traits. Since, as one poster already pointed out, Cigar tasting is usually rather subjective; an Amazon type algorithm that would compare cigars you like with cigars other people like and suggests cigars you haven't tried may be more practical. In other words Amazon takes things you have purchased (liked) in the past and provides you with a list of things you may wish to purchase based upon the things that others have bought that bought the same thing as you.

P.S. I know that sounds very confusing but I can't figure out a way to say it any better than that.

 

[DesertRat]

As was said, Pandora dissects music to its core components or its "genetic" origin based on tempo, harmony, rhythm, instruments, vocal patterns, etc...

A program like Pandor for cigars, would be possible but only with a ton of manhours taken to compile the basic data.

I think the starting point would be to obtain and enter the detailed data on all cigars using a variety of variables for each, based on the following;
Manufacturer
Vitola
Country where the tobacco was grown
Origin of the seed used
Type of filler
Type of wrapper
Type of binder
Any other base contributors to the making of that specific cigar.

Next, you pull the data from all CA magazine reviews (and/or other respected reviewers and sources) in order to input that info to be added to other data above.

You would then mine the combined data for all matching info such as the mfg data, phrases and terms used to describe the cigar in the reviews, its rating etc....

After all that you would end up with a very exhaustive, yet detailed listing of the cigars, what makes them the cigar they are and what people say about them. In a nutshell you would have dissected each cigar down to its "genetics" or minute details and statistics.

Now what to do with the data?

You then develop the program or "App" to sort through the data and retrieve the information needed.

Example: You just smoked a "source" cigar and input it into the app. The app looks at the genetics of the source cigar then pulls from the database a listing of all Churchills that were referred to in reviews as having "nutty flavors", were "spicy", considered to be a bold smoke, got a rating of 87 or above, grown from ABC seed in the country of Anywhere, use X wrapper, Y binder and Z filler.

The more data point matches returned, the higher a percentage rating the cigar receives in the app's selection process.

After all that , the results would return cigars with a strong probability that if you liked the source cigar you would like one of the cigars in the higher percentile that were retrieved from the database.

Even then there is a human factor needed and that is where something along the lines of what {tpc} put forward would be a big plus in narrowing the list of results.

I think it is definitely a good idea but as I said it would be very labor intensive to compile and input the initial data.

 

[Grinn]

The idea actually is a site and/or mobile app where you can tell it what cigars you like and it will suggest similar cigars for you to try. As you try new cigars you "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" them and it learns what you do and don't like based on those votes... Much like how Pandora does with music.

I like the idea! That said your "likes" are subjective. That is the difficult part. A solution might be to start with a vast database of cigars, and allow users to input what they think a suitable comparison is. Like say you smoke a Chatue Fuente Sungrown, and it reminds you of a ....oh I dunno, a Rocky Patel Sungrown. Assuming both are in the database you could rate the Fuente with a thumbs up or thumbs down and then also select the Rocky Patel as something similar. The next user comes along and says I like Rocky Patel Sungrown and it suggests Chatue Fuente Sungrown for them. The database grows and grows. You could also have a place where a user could suggest adding a cigar to the database that isn't there, provided they do it in the correct format or something.

The real issue is how to handle when say most users think cigar A is similar to cigar B but a handlful think it compares to cigar C or D. I suppose you could limit choices to length and ring gauge, or something like that but it might not be all emcompassing.

Of course I don't know how Pandora works. Are the suggestions mostly unique to the user but it pulls them from a general database somewhere in the "cloud"? They must have an algorithm that makes it easy, but with music there is so much out there already in the cloud in databases and categorized by genre, artist, etc etc. Like Matt said, probably hundreds of hours trying to pull together something similar for cigars. I'm sure this is the largest hurdle.

Wonderful input. Thank you. Pandora actually has teams of musicians, music students, and hard-core enthusiasts that record the attributes (that they confusingly call genres) of the music like instruments used, tempo, genres, vocal presence/types, etc. A lot of these are very formulaic (ex: a 3/4 count is an absolute measurement and can be definitively noted), and you don't exactly have that with cigars. Sure, you can specifically record the gauge and length of a cigar but when it comes to taste or aroma, things like "sweetness", "bitterness" and "bite" are rather subjective.

So, an algorithm like you suggested might work better for cigars, but such an algorithm has a major draw-back: It doesn't really work very well until you get a lot of users inputting data. So perhaps a combination would be best: Use the absolutes we do know for things like size, shape and type and leave flavor and aroma up to user input.

 

[Grinn]

As was said, Pandora dissects music to its core components or its "genetic" origin based on tempo, harmony, rhythm, instruments, vocal patterns, etc...

A program like Pandor for cigars, would be possible but only with a ton of manhours taken to compile the basic data.

I think the starting point would be to obtain and enter the detailed data on all cigars using a variety of variables for each, based on the following;
Manufacturer
Vitola
Country where the tobacco was grown
Origin of the seed used
Type of filler
Type of wrapper
Type of binder
Any other base contributors to the making of that specific cigar.

Next, you pull the data from all CA magazine reviews (and/or other respected reviewers and sources) in order to input that info to be added to other data above.

You would then mine the combined data for all matching info such as the mfg data, phrases and terms used to describe the cigar in the reviews, its rating etc....

After all that you would end up with a very exhaustive, yet detailed listing of the cigars, what makes them the cigar they are and what people say about them. In a nutshell you would have dissected each cigar down to its "genetics" or minute details and statistics.

Now what to do with the data?

You then develop the program or "App" to sort through the data and retrieve the information needed.

Example: You just smoked a "source" cigar and input it into the app. The app looks at the genetics of the source cigar then pulls from the database a listing of all Churchills that were referred to in reviews as having "nutty flavors", were "spicy", considered to be a bold smoke, got a rating of 87 or above, grown from ABC seed in the country of Anywhere, use X wrapper, Y binder and Z filler.

The more data point matches returned, the higher a percentage rating the cigar receives in the app's selection process.

After all that , the results would return cigars with a strong probability that if you liked the source cigar you would like one of the cigars in the higher percentile that were retrieved from the database.

Even then there is a human factor needed and that is where something along the lines of what {tpc} put forward would be a big plus in narrowing the list of results.

I think it is definitely a good idea but as I said it would be very labor intensive to compile and input the initial data.

Yes, that was precisely my thoughts. Although I smoke cigars daily, I wasn't sure what metrics to use for the search so thanks for that list. Can anyone suggest any other "absolutes" that we might want to add to that list?

Also, I was considering letting the user optionally provide thumbs up/down for specific attributes of the cigar, like:

What did you enjoy/dislike about the cigar:
- Flavor
- Length
- Girth
- Burn rate
- Texture
- (etc.)

We could then know, "This user liked this cigar because of its flavor and burn rate, but disliked its texture." Again, what would you guys suggest for this list?