Poker Brat

[Newfie]

I wouldn't be suprised if someone caved this guy's face in, and would actually be shocked if it hasn't happened yet.

I know his "WAY" is getting on people's nerves and inside their heads while the game is on. Like it or not, it's part of it.

But the way he tosses insults after he's put out is putrid.

Yesterday I was watching some WSOP footage where he got put out, and what he said to the guys at the table was friggin' rediculous.

Who has an opinion on this nuisance?

 

[stepthirteen]

That is one of the things that makes him unbeatable at times. You are correct he is way over the top with his insults and should have his face caved in more times than not, but the reality is it makes him better, or it makes him worse on any given day. Oh by the way and old man went outside and kicked his a#$ one year. I can't recall his name, but it did happen.

Jim

 

[Bsneed51]

Despite his attitude, he really is one of the top 4-5 no limit hold 'em players in the world. I think most pro poker players have his attitude, he just vocalizes it.

 

[badhangover]

Despite his attitude, he really is one of the top 4-5 no limit hold 'em players in the world.

In tournaments. And has been at it for a while.

 

[DesertRat]

I've played against people with attitudes like his and I find it extremely amusing how upset they are and the insults they hurl while they are walking out the door. The bottom line is that no matter how many insults they fling, they lost and they need to accept that in poker there is a huge amount of luck involved in each hand. You can play a hand in textbook fashion and still lose to dumb luck. It happens often; get over it.

 

[Golfanatic]

Are we talking about Phil Helmuth?

 

[DesertRat]

Are we talking about Phil Helmuth?

Indeed

 

[NASTY]

I saw this one as well. It was quite embarrassing really. I don't play poker like that but I don't understand why he kept calling him the idiot. He obviously got bested by this idiot LOL

 

[stepthirteen]

I saw this one as well. It was quite embarrassing really. I don't play poker like that but I don't understand why he kept calling him the idiot. He obviously got bested by this idiot LOL

Not always the best player wins. As is said previosly luck is a huge part of the game, however the best players are the ones you see consistently cashing and at final tables.

Jim

 

[Goldie]

Helmuth is a good player obviously, but he is a cry baby through and through. Poker is gambling, bottom line. Whether you lost to skill, or complete luck, you lost, and the other person took a gamble, and won.

 

[Newfie]

Despite his attitude, he really is one of the top 4-5 no limit hold 'em players in the world. I think most pro poker players have his attitude, he just vocalizes it.

I agree with the first part of your post, no doubt. With 11 WSOP bracelets, his skills cannot be denied. However, I think the second part I have to disagree with. You look at the Phil Iveys, Doyle Brunsons, Daniel Negraneaus, Chris Fergusons, Johnny Chans, Allan Cunninghams and Jennifer Tillys ( :love: ) and Clonie Gowens ( :love: :love: ) of the poker world and you never see anything besides proper behavior and tact.

I've played against people with attitudes like his and I find it extremely amusing how upset they are and the insults they hurl while they are walking out the door. The bottom line is that no matter how many insults they fling, they lost and they need to accept that in poker there is a huge amount of luck involved in each hand. You can play a hand in textbook fashion and still lose to dumb luck. It happens often; get over it.

I think that says it all. Everyone gets Rivered at some point or another.

Yes, luck is a huge part of the game, but may have said "Luck has nothing to do with why you consistantly see so many common faces at final tables".

 

[:Monty:]

A little off topic but can anyone explain to me how these top players are so consistent? I've played a little poker, even won a local tournament a few years back. It was about 100 hundred players but the hundred dollar entry fee went mostly to charity. I think I walked with around 2 grand. I definitely got lucky during that tournament but felt like I played well.

All that being said I can't play online poker for crap. I've heard people throw around terms like "feel" players and "math" players and was wondering if most of these top pros are game theory and math nerds.

 

[dkprlp]

If you play enough ( like every day ) your bound to win occasionally.. I'd rather be lucky them good.
Nobody likes playin with a whiner. Win some loose some.. Now where can I find a game?

 

[grateful1]

If you play enough ( like every day ) your bound to win occasionally.. I'd rather be lucky them good.
Nobody likes playin with a whiner. Win some loose some.. Now where can I find a game?

On a poker forum!

 

[Bsneed51]

Despite his attitude, he really is one of the top 4-5 no limit hold 'em players in the world. I think most pro poker players have his attitude, he just vocalizes it.

I agree with the first part of your post, no doubt. With 11 WSOP bracelets, his skills cannot be denied. However, I think the second part I have to disagree with. You look at the Phil Iveys, Doyle Brunsons, Daniel Negraneaus, Chris Fergusons, Johnny Chans, Allan Cunninghams and Jennifer Tillys ( :love: ) and Clonie Gowens ( :love: :love: ) of the poker world and you never see anything besides proper behavior and tact.

What I was trying to say is you know that even the "cool customers" like Ivey walk away from the table furious when they get knocked out on a donkey call. When they play a hand perfect, and some fish trying to make a name against one of the top pros stays in a hand they have no business playing, and then draws out it eats at every one of them. They just don't let the insults fly like Phil does.

 

[Newfie]

What I was trying to say is you know that even the "cool customers" like Ivey walk away from the table furious when they get knocked out on a donkey call. When they play a hand perfect, and some fish trying to make a name against one of the top pros stays in a hand they have no business playing, and then draws out it eats at every one of them. They just don't let the insults fly like Phil does.

Yes, that is probably very true. Point well taken.

However, that should make the difference between 'Da Brat and most of the rest of the pros even wider.

 

[DesertRat]

What I was trying to say is you know that even the "cool customers" like Ivey walk away from the table furious when they get knocked out on a donkey call. When they play a hand perfect, and some fish trying to make a name against one of the top pros stays in a hand they have no business playing, and then draws out it eats at every one of them. They just don't let the insults fly like Phil does.

Exactly. It comes down to losing gracefully which should be an attribute of a professional of Phil's caliber. Phil is a great technical poker player,(possibly the greatest) and his numerous bracelets prove that. However, with the prevalence of online poker and the surge in recent years of the popularity of poker where someone like Moneymaker can come from obscurity and win millions, the game has changed. The only criteria for entering the WSOP is that you pay the entry fee or that you win a satellite tourney at an online poker room. From there it comes down to almost pure luck and some skill on the part of the genuine donk's to advance and pure skill and some luck on the part of the pro's like Phil to read the donk's and know how to play them.

There is a reason the same basic group of people end up at the final tables and it comes from their almost total immersion in the game. Phil has said before that to other people it is a game but to him it is his livlihood, his job. He knows how to play the mathmatical probabilities and he knows how to read a fellow professional tournament player but what he seems to fail at is how to read (and react to) the donk that is willing to go all-in with a 8,2 off-suit and goes on to win the hand on the river.

I love poker

 

[Bsneed51]

You also have to consider this, would you know who Phil Helmuth is if it wasn't for the poker brat personna? How much of that has landed him the commercials, endorsement deals, etc. In an ever growing field of excellent poker pros he's played up the "poker brat" personna to seperate himself from the field. There is a reason guys like him and Mike the Mouth are sitting at the feature tables on ESPN. Every "sport" needs a villian to root against.

 

[stevehawk]

A little off topic but can anyone explain to me how these top players are so consistent? I've played a little poker, even won a local tournament a few years back. It was about 100 hundred players but the hundred dollar entry fee went mostly to charity. I think I walked with around 2 grand. I definitely got lucky during that tournament but felt like I played well.

All that being said I can't play online poker for crap. I've heard people throw around terms like "feel" players and "math" players and was wondering if most of these top pros are game theory and math nerds.

The best players have several things going for them that most recreational players don't. Top among these are:

1. They have experience. They have played a LOT of hands and a lot of tournaments. Top players know that you need to play different ways in different parts of a tournament. Inexperienced players typically just play their way, with no thought to the cycle of a tourney. In non-tourney play, better players will mix up their styles of play while most lesser players are consistent in how they play.

2. They know the odds -- both pot odds and odds of their "outs" hitting. If you don't know the odds of your hand winning at any point in a hand, you are at a disadvantage. Also, if you don't understand how the size of the pot should influence your bet, call or raise, you are at a disadvantage. Professionals know their odds and play them accordingly. IMO, this is the most important aspect of becoming a good player.

3. They have good intuition and can read other players. This comes with experience, but the best players in the world have a "knack" for this aspect of the game. You can win money at poker if you have experience, know your odds, and simply play the cards. But the best players have experience, know their odds and play the other players.


As for Helmuth, I can relate to what makes him go off at times. When a donk is in a hand that s/he has no reason to be in and hits, it freaking hurts. Especially when you have read them perfectly, taken your time to set them up perfectly, and then get beat due to simple stupid luck -- it hurts. I like watching him go off on a poor player simply because I would want to but wouldn't in the same situation.