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Sin Taxes

M

McPatrickClan

McPatrickClan
Joined
May 22, 2002
Messages
562
I am hearing this phrase used a lot around here. Is there some kind of increased level of taxation on tobacco products? I have heard of an extra cigarette tax, but never anything on cigars. I don't know of any difference between a can of soup's taxes and a Padron 2000's taxes here in the great state of Texas.
 
Each state is different when it comes to taxing tobacco. In WV where I live cigarettes are in a different classification than cigars. Up until July of this year there was no tax on cigars, all you paid was the sales tax. Then our a**hole of a governor decided that teenagers were using too much smokeless tobacco in the state so he proposed a 7 percent tax on it, but in this state cigars are in the same category as smokeless tobacco, so we now have a 7 percent tax on top of the sales tax.

On top of that cigar shops had to inventory their stock on the day the tax took effect and send the governor a check for 7 percent of their inventory! :angry: :angry: :angry:
 
I think it's about 20% here in CO - not really sure. That's pretty bad, but not as bad as places like CA and NY.
 
Thank God Texas isn't too bad. I cannot believe these taxes! Lawmakers are so selfish, they try to legistlate morality.
 
I don't really believe personally that it is an Anti Smoking issue. Think about it, they gain a hell of a lot of revenue with those taxes and stand to lose a great deal of $ if we stopped buying tobacco products. The industry is a Cash Cow and the government knows it. Just MHO
 
It's just another tax, no more or less than that. It's tough to argue for or against it in isolation--that is, to say that the sales tax is good, but the tobacco tax is bad.

When a scruffy-looking guy pokes a gun into your belly and demands your money, it's armed robbery and morally bad. But when the government pokes a gun into your belly and demands your money, it's taxation and morally good.

(What's that? Taxation doesn't involve a gun? Oh yes it does: refuse to pay your taxes long enough and the gun will show up.)

Whoops--politics. Sorry...
 
LOL@Barak, dude, when you talk about Taxes, it's political no matter what :sneaky:
 
And the Winner is................... My home state of WASHINGTON :(

Ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Let's here it for the internet :D
 
what it comes down to is that smokers esp cigar smokers are a very small minority of people and when raising taxes and this minority comes around no one cares.
Well maybe it will matter when it comes time for something they like gets taxed.
 
J Lew said:
Well maybe it will matter when it comes time for something they like gets taxed.
Click to expand...
Good point. If you will recall, some liberal Republicans spearheaded by the Democratic leadership wanted to introduce a 1-cent tax on web sales of product. Dubya led the charge to kill that before it made any headway and it died. Just wait though, if we don't wake up and fight back, we will have a monster on our hands.

What is the point of taxes anyway? Do we really trust a small group of people to spend our country's wealth more efficiently than we can? I don't believe so. Most Americans pay numerous taxes: Sales tax, federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax, medicare tax, etc. Why pay these taxes? I earned my B.S. from a private school out-of-state. Why should I pay for students to get an education at Michigan State?

The real kick in the pants is that certain products lack the "moral value" that others do in the eyes of lawmakers (cigars, cigarettes, alcohol, etc.) and thus, should be discouraged through high taxes. I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of anyone telling a grown man what he should or should not do with the wages he earned while working in America.
 
J Lew said:
Well maybe it will matter when it comes time for something they like gets taxed.
Click to expand...
The trick, you see, is to narrow the tax (or ban) target down far enough that the folks you're screwing over are always a small enough minority that they can't beat you.

What percentage of the population smokes enough cigars to produce significant political repercussions if they're--say--banned? Too much? No problem, then: we only ban the really big ones over 7.5 inches long. Or perhaps only cigars that are maduro or darker. Some devotees of the banned products will vote against us, sure; but it's a smaller group, and others will quietly switch to smoking smaller or lighter cigars. If we make our BS political arguments slick enough, we may even hear some cigar smokers saying to other cigar smokers, "Be reasonable! You still have a wide range of cigars to choose from; what's your problem? You should just be glad they weren't all banned!"

If we can reduce the available choice for cigar smokers enough, some will quit on their own for lack of interest, and the pastime will fail to attract folks it otherwise might have, simply because it's less attractive.

After awhile, the cigar-smoking voter base may be small enough to get away with banning cigars altogether. If not, other regulations and restrictions can be imaginatively applied to make cigar smoking progressively more unpleasant. Perhaps someone will conveniently use a cigar lighter to commit arson, giving the politicians an argument for banning "super-powerful pocket blowtorch" cigar lighters. (If someone doesn't do so on his own, perhaps we can hire someone to.) We could ban guillotine cutters and cigar scissors as being dangerous to children if we could arrange for a kid to cut off a finger in a high-profile way. We could raise the legal age for smoking. We might even be able to set a limit on the total number of cigars a private smoker could own, and then offer dealer licenses to people who wanted to own more. We could then progressively reduce the unlicensed limit and increase the price of the license.

At any rate, if we work at it long enough, someday we'll have the smoker base small enough that we can ban cigars and confiscate them.

I understand how this goes: I'm a firearms enthusiast. At least you folks have the advantage that in general privately-owned cigars are no threat to the consolidation of political power.
 
[quote name='Rockin' Republican' date='Sep 29 2002, 07:12 PM']Damned liberals, their anti-smoking nazis.[/quote]
Well the ammendment in FL to outlaw public smoking is something that Jeb Bush wholeheartedly supports. The whole Liberal/Conservative view is bull****. It is the extreme ends of each party that are truely to blame for this morality/taxes bull****. When it comes to it, Americans as a whole don not object to moderate taxes if 1. The tax lax is applied fairly; and 2. Taxes are spent in order to make America a great place to live.
The real pertinent issue here is this, American's no longer have a say in what they believe in, unless it is a local issue. National politics has been skewed by both Parties. So, unless you vote for a minor party or an independant, you aren't voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

Emo
 
emodx said:
When it comes to it, Americans as a whole don not object to moderate taxes if [...]
Click to expand...
As I'm sure everyone knows by now, I'm anything but "Americans as a whole"--as a matter of fact, I'm not really sure if such a collectivist term can be put to any real use. (I know I always get all florid and exercised and loud when a politician talks about what "the American people want.")

However, let me put a mark on the patterning board anyway: not only am I opposed to moderate taxes, I'm opposed to all taxes. It's not the amount of money that makes them objectionable to me: it's what their very existence demonstrates about the government's opinion of my liberties.

But then, I'm neither liberal nor conservative nor moderate...so whatdya expect?
 
The Term [sin tax] in and of itself is saying that it is a "Sin" for me [or you] to Smoke a cigar (dring a beer, smoke a cigarette, etc..).

:0 excuse me, when did Sin or No Sin become a legislative matter? :sneaky:

This whole thing is a bunch of BS if you ask me (and if you didn't).

I said it before :lookup: I'll say it again:

The tobacco (alchohol et all) industry is a cash cow for the government, they don't WANT us to stop smoking, they just want us to pay through the nose when we do. Our government is sure we will not stop, so they add taxes to a sure thing to line their own collective pockets. I shall not be convinced otherwise :angry:
 
Barak said:
emodx said:
When it comes to it, Americans as a whole don not object to moderate taxes if [...]
Click to expand...
As I'm sure everyone knows by now, I'm anything but "Americans as a whole"--as a matter of fact, I'm not really sure if such a collectivist term can be put to any real use. (I know I always get all florid and exercised and loud when a politician talks about what "the American people want.")

However, let me put a mark on the patterning board anyway: not only am I opposed to moderate taxes, I'm opposed to all taxes. It's not the amount of money that makes them objectionable to me: it's what their very existence demonstrates about the government's opinion of my liberties.

But then, I'm neither liberal nor conservative nor moderate...so whatdya expect?
Click to expand...
If your opposed to all taxes then you are on your own with a few other people. But remember if people werent paying taxes, the idea of America would be just that, an idea. I don't agree with the way America is heading politically, but I love America. I'll pay my taxes, I will serve my country in a way that I agree with morally to make it better, and I'll continue to vote. The way I see it, if you don't do all 3, then you aren't an American I admire. But you are still an American, and I still choose to defend your liberties and volunteer locally to make my community better. All this talk about sin taxes, and anti smoking laws, and such....How many of you voted against these taxes and laws? How many wrote your leaders and protested? How many write now to protest? Maybe one or two in the lot of ya? Qwitcherbitchin, **** or get off the pot. They only way to keep America the land of the beautiful and home of the free is to get off your but and make it what you want. Inactivity and indifference is one of the biggest evil's America faces. That's my 2 cents and I am sticking with it.

Emo

Now I am not trying to attack you or any group of people, just standing on my soap box so everyone can hear me. :)
 
You go Girl...er I mean Guy :D I agree with you 100% Emo my friend. I hear people bitchin and moanin about america all the time, and it pisses me off. I don't like the word Sin associated with my freedoms, but paying Taxes is a civic Duty and I am happy to be a part. I wish that I could serve in the armed forces and admire and respect those who can and do.

America, with all her faults [less than other places, btw], is my home and I am proud of her.

Long live Lady Liberty and that for which she stands!!

And for those of you who feel the need to poo poo on my speach, Yes, I WAS waving the flag :angry:
 
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