Super premium peer pressure

[Mr Peat]

I was on a cruise a few years ago and the ship was 90% british, nobody was smoking with the band on their cigars. I asked a british fellow I met on the cruise why? He said because cigars are ment to be enjoyed by all classes and is a brotherhood that has nothing to do with financial classification. I also noticed that many Cuban cigars that were first made for the British market came in Cabs without bands at all.

Interesting; definitely not what I've experienced in London.

I notice in Europe in general, they aren't as caught up in the marketing hype. A friend of mine in Italy has a 7 series BMW and it didn't have any model number on the back. I told him in North America there is a big difference if you have 745i, 745IL, or 760IL... he simply responded... I buy a car because the way it drives, not because of status associated with a number. I learned a lesson and I think the same thing applies to cigars.

Uh... I can only surmise that you don't spend much time in Europe if you think people there are not every bit as brand conscious as they are here.

Been to Europe many times and London especially for the UK. I didnt see the British taking the bands off either. And yes, they are very conscious in how they look to others. So once again I have to agree with Moki on this one. There are always exceptions and you can find that riding the Underground. :laugh:

But as for pressure. I just smoke whatever I want, when I want. I dont take the bands off till I get close to the nub. If someone sees me smoking a Opus or a PSD4 so be it. :thumbs:

 

[bobbyg29]

Not sure where you think I said that premium smokes are all hype Brian???? I never said that at all. I am sure that there are many that are well worth the $.

All I am saying is that for a newbie like me they may not be worth the investment because I wouldn't be able to really appreciate them and they are something I am really looking forward to trying so why rush it.

If we want to use the car example...you don't need a ferrari when all you do is drive 35mph around town

 

[Infinity]

Not sure where you think I said that premium smokes are all hype Brian???? I never said that at all. I am sure that there are many that are well worth the $.

All I am saying is that for a newbie like me they may not be worth the investment because I wouldn't be able to really appreciate them and they are something I am really looking forward to trying so why rush it.

If we want to use the car example...you don't need a ferrari when all you do is drive 35mph around town

My terminolgy may be off but when you said "I am resisting this “super premium peer pressure” for several reasons", hype fits the description.

I would love to drive in a ferrari at 35MPH :laugh:

BTW, there are many premiums that can be had at $10.00 but sure, you are right, if you cannot afford more than $10, there are many good smokes for less then that.

After you have been here for a short while so we can get to know you and add some info to your profile, (addy would help) you should start looking at the sky, you never know what may fall down

Brian

 

[smithrob75]

I don't take the band off till I smoke it down a bit, some cigars have heavy glue and you'll take a little leaf with it. Once I took the band off and the whole leaf unravelled (before I ever lit it) so I'm careful about that.

Some cigars like the Padron 1964's band will come right off, I don't think they use glue..

 

[bobbyg29]

Not sure where you think I said that premium smokes are all hype Brian???? I never said that at all. I am sure that there are many that are well worth the $.

All I am saying is that for a newbie like me they may not be worth the investment because I wouldn't be able to really appreciate them and they are something I am really looking forward to trying so why rush it.

If we want to use the car example...you don't need a ferrari when all you do is drive 35mph around town

My terminolgy may be off but when you said "I am resisting this “super premium peer pressure” for several reasons", hype fits the description.

I would love to drive in a ferrari at 35MPH :laugh:

BTW, there are many premiums that can be had at $10.00 but sure, you are right, if you cannot afford more than $10, there are many good smokes for less then that.

After you have been here for a short while so we can get to know you and add some info to your profile, (addy would help) you should start looking at the sky, you never know what may fall down

Brian

Sorry for the confusion Brian...the "pressure" I was talking about is this. When I walk around my local B&M with $25 in my pocket I see 4-5 great smokes that I want to try but somewhere in my head I hear a voice saying "try the Opus...try the Opus" :laugh: Its funny..its seems like its a badge of honor for cigar smokers. :laugh:

Good suggestion about adding to my profile..

 

[jabba]

Probably the best reason for removing your cigar band comes from the “Yogi Berra rule.”

In the 1957 World Series against the Milwaukee Braves, Berra was catching for the Yankees when slugger Henry Aaron came to the plate. Berra, a ceaseless talker behind the plate, told Aaron he was holding the bat improperly, with the trademark facing toward the plate instead of the hitter. Aaron ignored the taunt, crushed the next pitch into the stands for a home run and after circling the bases, reportedly told Berra, “I came here to hit, not to read.”

I was on a cruise a few years ago and the ship was 90% british, nobody was smoking with the band on their cigars. I asked a british fellow I met on the cruise why? He said because cigars are ment to be enjoyed by all classes and is a brotherhood that has nothing to do with financial classification. I also noticed that many Cuban cigars that were first made for the British market came in Cabs without bands at all.

Interesting; definitely not what I've experienced in London.

I notice in Europe in general, they aren't as caught up in the marketing hype. A friend of mine in Italy has a 7 series BMW and it didn't have any model number on the back. I told him in North America there is a big difference if you have 745i, 745IL, or 760IL... he simply responded... I buy a car because the way it drives, not because of status associated with a number. I learned a lesson and I think the same thing applies to cigars.

Uh... I can only surmise that you don't spend much time in Europe if you think people there are not every bit as brand conscious as they are here.

BAND ON OR BAND OFF?

Every beginning cigar smoker faces this question: should I leave the band on or take it off?

How to smoke cigars – with the band on or off – has been debated without end since about 1850 when Gustave Bock introduced the first bands. Why?

Bock’s Havana-made cigars – like the Fuente Fuente Opus X or Padron 1964 Anniversary Series today – were copied so widely so he put bands on to identify them as authentic. Up to that time, all cigars had been sold without bands or cellophane. In the early days, bands were placed toward the center of most cigars.

(There’s also considerable speculation that bands came about because of the wide use of light-colored or white gloves in high society where cigars were fashionable and the wrappers stained the gloves, but Bock is widely credited with putting bands on his cigars first.)

For generations in England, it was considered bad practice to smoke cigars with the band on, since it would “advertise” the brand you were smoking. In the U.S., there’s no rule, but many smokers keep the band on.

http://www.cigarcyclopedia.com/cigarprimer/basics.php

I sure not everyone in England takes off the band, but it seems to be more common than in the USA.

 

[Gonz]

I actually remove the band, then place it on my forehead so everyone in the lounge knows how cool I am. I found it's easier than carrying a sign. Or wearing my Opus hat...

 

[bobbyg29]

Probably the best reason for removing your cigar band comes from the “Yogi Berra rule.”

In the 1957 World Series against the Milwaukee Braves, Berra was catching for the Yankees when slugger Henry Aaron came to the plate. Berra, a ceaseless talker behind the plate, told Aaron he was holding the bat improperly, with the trademark facing toward the plate instead of the hitter. Aaron ignored the taunt, crushed the next pitch into the stands for a home run and after circling the bases, reportedly told Berra, “I came here to hit, not to read.”

Never heard that story before. I love it!

On a related note...there used to be this great B&M in my town but "nobody goes there anymore..it's too crowded.

 

[jabba]

Not sure where you think I said that premium smokes are all hype Brian???? I never said that at all. I am sure that there are many that are well worth the $.

All I am saying is that for a newbie like me they may not be worth the investment because I wouldn't be able to really appreciate them and they are something I am really looking forward to trying so why rush it.

If we want to use the car example...you don't need a ferrari when all you do is drive 35mph around town

My terminolgy may be off but when you said "I am resisting this “super premium peer pressure” for several reasons", hype fits the description.

I would love to drive in a ferrari at 35MPH :laugh:

BTW, there are many premiums that can be had at $10.00 but sure, you are right, if you cannot afford more than $10, there are many good smokes for less then that.

After you have been here for a short while so we can get to know you and add some info to your profile, (addy would help) you should start looking at the sky, you never know what may fall down

Brian

Sorry for the confusion Brian...the "pressure" I was talking about is this. When I walk around my local B&M with $25 in my pocket I see 4-5 great smokes that I want to try but somewhere in my head I hear a voice saying "try the Opus...try the Opus" :laugh: Its funny..its seems like its a badge of honor for cigar smokers. :laugh:

Good suggestion about adding to my profile..

The Million$ marketing machine at it's best.

It's all personal preference, try the Opus and making your own opinion, I prefer less spice and more balance but that's just me. Most Canadians don't find them anything special, most of the guys I know have smoked a few and weren't impressed... just ask Zeebra to tell you the lake story.

I actually remove the band, then place it on my forehead so everyone in the lounge knows how cool I am. I found it's easier than carrying a sign. Or wearing my Opus hat...

That was the reply of the day

and also a more effective method!

 

[moki]

I sure not everyone in England takes off the band, but it seems to be more common than in the USA.

For generations in England, it was considered bad practice to smoke cigars with the band on

I'll buy that it possibly once was (just as people once wore white gloves), but today, I see absolutely no difference. Some people in the USA take the bands off; some leave 'em on. Same in England, in my experience.

The comment about a lack of brand consciousness in Europe is way off base, I've actually found that for certain things (such as cell phones and clothing), brand consciousness is even more prevalent in many places in Europe than it is in the USA. Japan is probably the most brand conscious society on the planet currently.

 

[Shooter]

Smoke everything you can get your hands on, until you find out what you like, then go from there...

 

[nfulton]

Smoke everything you can get your hands on, until you find out what you like, then go from there...

I second that!

 

[jabba]

I sure not everyone in England takes off the band, but it seems to be more common than in the USA.

For generations in England, it was considered bad practice to smoke cigars with the band on

I'll buy that it possibly once was (just as people once wore white gloves), but today, I see absolutely no difference. Some people in the USA take the bands off; some leave 'em on. Same in England, in my experience.

The comment about a lack of brand consciousness in Europe is way off base, I've actually found that for certain things (such as cell phones and clothing), brand consciousness is even more prevalent in many places in Europe than it is in the USA.

When quality is associated with brand I agree... but in my experience, the Marketing machine is more present in the USA... again, this is all my opinion.

what I mean by marketing machine is making people want something just because of the buzz associated with it. Examples... tickle me Elmo, Crox shoes, iPods, Opus'!

 

[moki]

When quality is associated with brand I agree... but in my experience, the Marketing machine is more present in the USA... again, this is all my opinion.

what I mean by marketing machine is making people want something just because of the buzz associated with it. Examples... tickle me Elmo, Crox shoes, iPods, Opus'!

My brother lived in Europe for 11 years, I traveled there often to visit him, and I do so now on business regularly as well. I see no difference at all, the "marketing machine" is every bit as prevalent in Europe as it is here, or elsewhere in the world for that matter.

What are you basing your experience on? Everything you've mentioned is also sold in Europe, via the same buzz we see here. There are fads the world over, and there are attempts at generating fads via marketing the world over too. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

But the idea that Europe is somehow dominated by quality discriminating cognoscenti just doesn't square with the reality I've experienced.

They sell the same crap at Euro Disney that they do here, and the same people gobble it up... it is true that your average European has less disposable income than your average American, though, which may effect their decision making process when it comes to purchasing things. Citation / Article

 

[jabba]

When quality is associated with brand I agree... but in my experience, the Marketing machine is more present in the USA... again, this is all my opinion.

what I mean by marketing machine is making people want something just because of the buzz associated with it. Examples... tickle me Elmo, Crox shoes, iPods, Opus'!

My brother lived in Europe for 11 years, I traveled there often to visit him, and I do so now on business regularly as well. I see no difference at all, the "marketing machine" is every bit as prevalent in Europe as it is here, or elsewhere in the world for that matter.

What are you basing your experience on? Everything you've mentioned is also sold in Europe, via the same buzz we see here. There are fads the world over, and there are attempts at generating fads via marketing the world over too. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

But the idea that Europe is somehow dominated by quality discriminating cognoscenti just doesn't square with the reality I've experienced.

They sell the same crap at Euro Disney that they do here, and the same people gobble it up... it is true that your average European has less disposable income than your average American, though, which may effect their decision making process when it comes to purchasing things.

you bring up a perfect example, population of Europe is 800 million, population of USA is 270 million. Annual attendance of Euro disney is about 12 million, annual attendance of Disney Orlando is about 42 million people... the Buzz works!

What we are debating is opinion based on personal experience, both my trips to europe and your visits to your bro's house are all just our perceptions.

 

[moki]

you bring up a perfect example, population of Europe is 800 million, population of USA is 270 million. Annual attendance of Euro disney is about 12 million, annual attendance of Disney Orlando is about 42 million people... the Buzz works!

First of all, there are not 800 million people in Europe; the number is 457,000,000 or so. Second of all, there is less disposable income for your average European than there is for your average American. That means money you can spend on doing frivolous things like, say, going to Disney. Finally, as somewhat of an American tradition that has been a part of our culture for literally a century, it makes sense more Americans would patronize Disney.

It's sort of like arguing that fewer Americans go to watch soccer games than Europeans, therefor the sports marketing machine buzz doesn't work here. That's not the case, it's just not much of a tradition here.

The big part of the equation that I think you're missing is the economic comparison between the USA and Europe. There's more disposable income here, of course people's spending habits will be different.

But this is all very tangental; what are you basing your assessment of consumer brand seeking in the USA vs. the EU on? Have you spent much time in Europe?

 

[jabba]

you bring up a perfect example, population of Europe is 800 million, population of USA is 270 million. Annual attendance of Euro disney is about 12 million, annual attendance of Disney Orlando is about 42 million people... the Buzz works!

First of all, there are not 800 million people in Europe; the number is 457,000,000 or so. Second of all, there is less disposable income for your average European than there is for your average American. That means money you can spend on doing frivolous things like, say, going to Disney. Finally, as somewhat of an American tradition that has been a part of our culture for literally a century, it makes sense more Americans would patronize Disney.

It's sort of like arguing that fewer Americans go to watch soccer games than Europeans, therefor the sports marketing machine buzz doesn't work here. That's not the case, it's just not much of a tradition here.

The big part of the equation that I think you're missing is the economic comparison between the USA and Europe. There's more disposable income here, of course people's spending habits will be different.

But this is all very tangental; what are you basing your assessment of consumer brand seeking in the USA vs. the EU on? Have you spent much time in Europe?

I think I said Europe, not the European Union...

population of Europe is roughly 728 million as per...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Europe

Disposable income maybe be a bit lower, but so is the admission fee, about 30% lower. If the buzz worked in Europe, Disney wouldn't have sold off 60% ownership of the park and the park wouldn't constantly be losing money.

I've spent quite a bit of time in europe, about 14 weeks in the last 6 years.

I'm basing it on what I saw and what I see when I visit the USA 4-5 weeks a year... AGAIN... THIS IS ALL MY PERSONAL OPINION... Are you saying you are stating fact and not your opinion?

 

[moki]

Disposable income maybe be a bit lower, but so is the admission fee, about 30% lower. If the buzz worked in Europe, Disney wouldn't have sold off 60% ownership of the park and the park wouldn't constantly be losing money.

So we're basing the entire discussion on the success and/or failure of EuroDisney? Given that there are many other factors that contribute to that, I'd say it's a bit less than useful.

Again, this is all very tangental; what are you basing your assessment of consumer brand seeking in the USA vs. the EU on? Have you spent much time in Europe?

BTW, it's more than "a bit lower" in terms of disposable income. From page 16 of the aforementioned report:

High per capita GDP coupled with internationally low taxes means a high level of private
consumption for the Americans. A substantial part of private consumption goes on retail
commodities. Table 2:1 shows retail sales in the USA and Sweden.3 On the whole, though,
the difference tallies with the picture that has emerged already. Americans have higher
incomes and lower taxes and can therefore have a retail consumption which is SEK 30,000
greater per annum and per capita than is possible in Sweden. A vital difference, giving the
Americans far greater opportunity to buy better goods and more of them than people in
Sweden can.

...and Sweden is better off than most of Europe in this regard.

 

[jabba]

my guess is sweden isn't very representative of europe... this may be a little closer...

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1783

I simply responded to your EuroDisney comment... I believe you brought up EuroDisney.

 

[moki]

my guess is sweden isn't very representative of europe... this may be a little closer...

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1783

I simply responded to your EuroDisney comment... I believe you brought up EuroDisney.

If you read the report I've linked to, all major countries in Europe are listed, not just Sweden. It's really an instructive read.

So anyway, what are you basing your assessment of consumer brand seeking in the USA vs. the EU on? Have you spent much time in Europe?