....sigh. I apologized for my outburst. No argument there.
Why you felt this has to be aired in public is beyond me, but I have nothing to hide. Since you've blocked the PM's and won't communicate with me 1:1, I suppose there's little choice but to get on with it. I'll dig though my PM archives when I get home tonight and believe I can post PM's documenting every step of the way here. As you said, this all happened over two years ago....more like three, as I recall.
1) Not owning up on your end of the box split (Cohiba Piramides). I sent you the half box and nothing from you.
Chris, you KNOW that's not true. The events, as I recall them went something like this:
- You and I do have done several box splits, lots of trades, bombed each other, all is well.
agreed
- You wants a 5-er of something I had (PLPC's as I recall). Nice, but not outrageous. I send them along (with a couple of PSD4 hitchikers, as I recall) and tell you to "send something back" and don't specify what.
WRONG. We split 2 boxes of PLPCs at a time when some good deals were had.
- You sends something back alright - five (half a box) of Cohiba EL's.
I tell you we should split a box of Cohiba ELs to celebrate us buying new humidors.
- I contact you and tell you that's too much; way too lopsided of a trade. You told me you'd bought the box to celebrate our new Staebell humidors, not to worry about it, and tell me we'll do more trading in the future and that it'll all work out.
NOT ONCE did you say "this is a box split, and your end is $X".
NOT TRUE. We had agreed to split a box of ELs. If you would have, I'd have paid you as promptly as I've paid each and every other person on this board. I considered it a reverse bomb and your comments seemed to indicate same.
- Months pass; no issues nor contact. Did you ever contact me, even once, and say "Hey, Tom, did you forget about the box split?" No, as it wasn't a "box split" as I know them.
I never felt it necessary to have to chase you, Tom... clearly I was mistaken and should have chased you.
Do I "owe" all the guys that have bombed me? No more than they owe me for bombs send out. It was clearly, clearly a lopsided trade but the events soon to happen broke our communication down and prevented any further trades.
Even if this was merely a "lopsided" trade as you claim... you never attempted or did make up for it... hmmm, sounds suspect as it is.
While the next events may seem to have little to nothing to do with what's transpired, I believe this is when you got pissed off at me.
- My Staebell shows up, and is beautiful.
Agreed.
- Your Staebell shows up, and you have issues with it. You posted a thread where you basically take Bob Staebell to task. Many, myself included, post a "give Bob a chance to make it right, and I'm sure he will" messages.
Agreed. I have issues with my humidor (the long wait for a sub-standard product that wasn't functioning correctly) and I send it back to Bob. He takes it back and it's all good on my end.
- Bob posts in thread, and presents his side of the story; a slightly different picture of the events. Basically, it didn't make you look good, did it Chris?
Actually, the problem I had with Bob's product was a door that simply wouldn't align properly and a lock slot that was cut in completely the wrong place preventing the lock mechanism from working and preventing me from removing the key (I have pictures if you'd like to see them). So I don't think it made Bob look too good. I mean, taking twice the time to build and then shipping out a humidor that he either didn't quality control or knew was defective would make any "craftsman" look bad. As I recall, you didn't post for quite a while after that.
I believe you were PO'd at me (and several others) because we didn't "stick up" for you in that thread. Whatever.
Whatever nothing. I have no issue with anyone for "not sticking up for me." Unlike some people, Tom, I'm a big boy and can stick up for myself. I returned the humidor and it was done. I didn't go on to flame out Bob. I even sat back while other guys were talking up Bob (I did give a heads-up about my experience to a couple guys privately). He ultimately refunded me the money I spent and took the humidor back. Case closed.
2) Bitching and complaining about me not agreeing to your P/T's in my Newborn Pass. A Padron 80th doesn't equal a BBMF... sorry Tom. The rules for the pass were simple... just wait for my approval before sending it out and you didn't follow the rules. And then wanting me to settle it out of public view.
Yes, this was a bad misunderstanding.
Agreed. In my haste to send along the pass, I didn't wait for your P&T approval. Guilty as charged. You are correct that a BBMF is more expensive than a Padron 80th, and if you recall, I'd added other trades to the overall puts and takes I made to make up the difference. You told me that "you paid XX at Casa Fuente for that BBMF" and my comment was along the line of "well, that doesn't make my Anejo's worth $35.00 either" to which you took great offense.
I didn't take any offense to this, Tom. What offended me was your cavalier and pissy attitude towards being told, "no." I'll quote you, "It's your pass and you can accept or reject anything anyone suggests. I will say that in the years that I've been with CP I've never had P's and T's questioned. I'm embarrassed and offended at the same time." And the only gauge I could get for a price on the BBMF was by calling Casa Fuente to find out how much they sell for. And I was even wrong about the price of the BBMF. I told you $60 and they actually sell the sticks for $125. I never purchased a cigar from Casa Fuente.
This is where you made your comments about "...sticking up for that jackass Bob Staebell...." which was a complete non sequitor given the subject we were discussing.
My comments about Bob had to do with trying to figure out why you were being such a jackass, Tom. And I asked you if you were upset with me because of the situation I had with Bob. You assured me that wasn't the case and that my issues with Bob hadn't somehow tarnished your view of me. That was certainly confusing because I couldn't figure out why you were being such a self-righteous prick in my pass.
At that point, I realized we were at an impasse, and asked you to send my puts back and I'd sent my takes back.
I'll quote you again;
"Chris - for reference, my puts and takes:
Take - #12: BBMF
Put - #146: Padron 80th Maduro
Take - #109: Punch Asia Pacific Super Punch
Put - #147: Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios - USE SEP 07
Take - #123: Cuaba Exclusivos '06
Put - #148: El Rey Del Mundo Choix Supreme - SXF FEB 05
Take - #129: Illusione M-7
Put - #149: Don Pepin JJ Maduro Sublime
Long and short of it is that I'm not feeling good about this. According to my research, that Cohiba is at least a $10.00 premium to the Punch. That was done to help offset any difference in #1, which you felt was a bad P&T. No issues there, but frankly I'm not comfortable with the whole thing at this point.
None of the takes have been removed from their bags, merely stored in my cabinet. At this point, I'd like to send all the takes back, including the Monte "bonus" stick, and have you return my puts me when the pass arrives. I'll get these out to you tomorrow and forward a DC when I get the box ready to travel.
Once again, I apologize for the thrash.
Thanks - T.L."
A mulligan, as I saw it.
The other muligan was the "bonus stick" I included for everyone in my pass. I was handing out sticks to the guys to celebrate the birth of my son. I begged you to keep that stick and in your insulting words (clearly meant to be insulting) you said, "I'd like to send all the takes back, including the Monte "bonus" stick." Tom, you knew what that bonus stick was for... you're an asshole for doing that. You were clearly being mean-spirited and venegeful for no other reason than your fragile little ego. Ridiculous.
Bad disagreement, but no long term harm done as you'd get your precious BBMF back and I'd get my sticks back. What I never figured out is why you took such personal offense to my suggestion that we just "undo" the put and take and call it good.
The offense was that you suggested we make it right behind the scenes, Tom, not in plain view of the community. You said, "I completely disagreed with you about the BBMF value, and felt embarrassed that the disagreement wasn't handled in PM. You could have said "send me $40.00" or "send me another 80th" or anything." The fact is, Tom, I had to talk you off the ledge and assure you that no one would have thought bad of you over one poor put/take. And you decided the way to handle it was to take everything back and simply drop out of the pass. The idea of my pass was a simple celebration of guys who had newborns during the year. You clearly decided to turn this into a mini-drama. As a result I have chosen not to be in passes where you're involved.
Sure, post the PM's but if you do, be sure to post the
complete PM's so the full picture can be seen. Did I screw up by not waiting for your approval? Yes, and I've admitted so time and time again. Why you got so enraged at my suggestion to return each others smokes is still something I still don't understand.
It went farther than that, Tom. You were well aware of how insulting it was to send a gifted stick back, especially given the situation, and you insisted on sending it back.
You also didn't mention that while we had this discussion, you brought up the Cohiba's. First time you'd made this an issue in years. Do you recall that I offered to send them back to you?
You did... I thought I never brought this up to you before??? Isn't that what you said. So what's the story, Tom? Clearly there was an issue, a split out there that you didn't honor... sounds that way to me. Your reply was along the lines of "...keep the damn things as that's all our friendship was worth...". So, while I offered to return them to hopefully put and end to the misunderstanding, you refused them. Now, years later, you return to beat me over the head with them. I don't get it.
You're beating yourself over the head with them, Tom. The reason I bring this up is because you are quick to dispense advice and manners to other members of the board yet these same rules of conduct don't seem to apply to Tom. You didn't make good on a box split (period). And you were a prick in my pass when there was absolutely no reason to be.
As far as working things out in private, I think it's always best unless there's a pattern of theft or deception. I would respectfully challenge you to find ONE other person on this board who I did wrong on a split, purchase, or any other transaction, ever. You won't find one as they don't exist. Oh sure, I'm sure there are folks that think I'm an asshole, but that's not because of a financial transaction where they were compromised. You're the only guy that has ever made such a claim.
I don't like drama, but I don't like being accused of things that didn't happen. L
ike I said, our version of events are very different, Tom. You're consistently poor knee-jerk reactions to things that don't go your way (like not working within the rules of my pass and simply being questioned about a put/take) is what I have issue with. I have issue with a guy that parades around the board with the swagger of one who's above the law. You're not squeaky-clean Tom. "Things" did happen and you're actually right that I shouldn't have waited this long to "air" it out. I have said before and will say again that I'm sorry this misunderstanding has fostered such hatred and anger on your part, Chris.
Your intent was crystal-clear and I'm sure I'm not the only one that doesn't want to play ball with you. But, the truth is, I don't get it.
Of course you don't... of course you don't.
B.B.S.
