The Habanos Instructional Insert

Ginseng

Banned
Hi guys,

As my last little project before the semester starts, I'd like to try something different this time. Instead of my telling you about the relevant features that distinguish authentic from counterfeit, I thought I'd present it in the form of an open book quiz. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Your challenge, should you choose to accept it is to examine the following scans of these three Habanos Inserts along with composites of certain details. You tell me what you see as differences and then offer up your guess as to which one of the three is the authentic specimen. No fair peeking at the photo-URLs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

1. Which letter code corresponds to which specimen? (i.e. letter "F" is the same as the fifth specimen)
2. Which letter/specimen is the authentic specimen?
3. What clues gave it away?

Good luck!

Full frame shots of the three specimens.
First
(IMG:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/Gins...umFakeSmall.jpg)

Second
(IMG:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/Gins...erFakeSmall.jpg)

Third
(IMG:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/Gins...enuineSmall.jpg)

Composites of some specific details. "A" is always the same specimen although the order is not necessarily as presented above.
Detail of the gold braid decoration from the lower right hand corner.
(IMG:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/Gins...sertBraid01.jpg)

Detail of the large leaf design from the top center.
(IMG:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/Gins...nsertLeaf01.jpg)

Detail of the leaf and Habanos logo from center-bottom.
(IMG:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/Gins...nsertLogo01.jpg)

Detail of a portion of the text from the right edge.
(IMG:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/Gins...nsertText01.jpg)

Wilkey
 

xprinter

New Member
You know I can't tell the difference :laugh:

By the way the address you gave me ;) should have his 5er(which turned into an even dozen) probably today. :laugh:
 

NullSmurf

Das Bruce
I've never seen one, but I'll take a stab. I like the 3rd sample. Its 3 colors and there is a slight "dirty" background that a copier either won't pick up at all, or will pixilize if it does. #3 is also sharper than the others with much more distinguishable detail. All of the "A" samples appear to match #3.
 

antaean

Did this happen to you?
My guess, after reading Wilkey's various expositions, is 3A. Unless, this is a trick question? :laugh:

antaean
 

Ginseng

Banned
Give the man a cigar. Nice job, gentlemen.

First = B
Second = C
Third = A

The authentic specimen is 3/A.

Here are some of the features to make note of. Keep in mind that to see some of these features clearly a magnifying glass or loupe may be necessary.

1. the presence of loops at the ends of the braided decorations
2. the spacing between the ends of the braided decorations at the corners
3. the number of loops in the braided decorations
4. sharp edges on the segments of the large leaf logo
5. proper font and crisp printing of the text in the center-bottom logo, note accent mark on the "Ú" and text right edge alignment
6. perfect right-justification of the text in the four paragraphs
7. correct words at the right edge of the paragraphs
8. proper paper is used- specimen B was printed on 0.003" vellum, authentic specimens are printed on 0.0025" parchment and have a characteristic mottled appearance when viewed against a light source
9. certain special characters in the body text - degree and percent symbols, these things usually vary more visibly than the regular alphabetic text characters

Wilkey
 
Do you have a pic of a authentic Cohiba inserts. I would post a pic but my cam is to blurry. The one i have is very clear and crisp like the one you indentified as real. But identified the box as fake because of the box code says May05 LIN. Help me out here.

Joe
 

Ginseng

Banned
Do you have a pic of a authentic Cohiba inserts. I would post a pic but my cam is to blurry. The one i have is very clear and crisp like the one you indentified as real. But identified the box as fake because of the box code says May05 LIN. Help me out here.

Joe
Do your best and then I'll see what I can do to help out.

As I'm typing this, I'm looking at a fake cab of Siglo VI stamped LIN NOV04.

Wilkey
 

auton0my

New Member
Bump.

Great thread as usual - I have noticed that my new boxes contain inserts where the text is actually a "dot matrix" constructed in a pixel-lated way.... much like a Warhol pinup artwork.

I viewed the text under a 12x loupe but am unable to photograph for the sake of example.

Any idea how long these have been used for Wilkey?
 

Wurm

Bratwurst and Beer
You may say one of them at the top is real Wilkey, but the German text is absolutely slaughtered, hell my 6 year-old doesn't even make that many spelling mistakes.

I'll have to pull one of mine out tonight and see if its completely full of such spelling mistakes as well.
 

cbob

New Member
All very interesting and a lot of fun, especially if one or more of the samples was actually from some fake Habanos.

I must (I must, I must) comment however that I happen to have kept virtually every insert from every box I've bought in Cuba over the past dozen years and there is MUCH variation in the size, print quality, colours, transparancy and thickness of those inserts. I certainly wouldn't be prepared to make a judgment from some compressed photos displayed on a web forum.

Of course I also have a cigar band that says "Habano" instead of "Havana" on it so I know that there are fakes that are obvious. :D

Commander Bob
Cigar trivia collector.
 

Brickhouse

J.C. Newman owes me royalties.
Great stuff Wilkey, I had it based on the Text of Habanos Unicos desde 1492. But I learned a lot about this I didn't know.
 

Ginseng

Banned
I must (I must, I must) comment however that I happen to have kept virtually every insert from every box I've bought in Cuba over the past dozen years and there is MUCH variation in the size, print quality, colours, transparancy and thickness of those inserts. I certainly wouldn't be prepared to make a judgment from some compressed photos displayed on a web forum
Agreed. I've seen too many minute variations to merit cataloguing. However, the thickness of a certain batch of fake inserts was well beyond typical variation. And the paper type was significantly off.

The articles I post are intended to be informative and illustrative of the type of variations one might expect. Some features are positively diagnostic of counterfeit status. Aside from these few key features, everything else should be considered as part of an ensemble when trying to determine the authenticity of a specimen. I'm sorry but I interpret your last statement as being dismissive of the work that folks like I and others offer up. I suppose the alternative is no information at all.

Wilkey
 

auton0my

New Member
I certainly appreciate your research and efforts W. Very thorough - and I'm sure very exhausting to say the least.

To follow up from my post (a few posts above) - have you seen any of the new inserts with the "pixelated" text? Viewing under magnification shows the dots (that make up the font) very clearly.
 

Ginseng

Banned
I certainly appreciate your research and efforts W. Very thorough - and I'm sure very exhausting to say the least.

To follow up from my post (a few posts above) - have you seen any of the new inserts with the "pixelated" text? Viewing under magnification shows the dots (that make up the font) very clearly.
I have not. Can you post a picture? Perhaps you can shoot me a PM with a little more info?

Wilkey
 

cbob

New Member
I'm sorry but I interpret your last statement as being dismissive of the work that folks like I and others offer up. I suppose the alternative is no information at all.
Wilkey
I'm sorry that you mis-interpreted my statement.

If you believe that I'm being dismissive, you are taking yourself and your "work" waaay too seriously. The alternative to this kind of anecdotal information is to simply buy Habanos from Habanos and not worry about the inserts.

It's a hobby for me so of course I appreciate all of this stuff and your post about the inserts is fun and informative. Keep up the good work.

In the end though, I wouldn't make a judgment on inserts based on low-res photos any more than I'd try to tell you if cigars were fakes based on some photos. (reference to all the posts asking "are these fakes").

Cheers,

Commander Bob
 

Ginseng

Banned
I read you. Please feel free to share your comments, then, when you have something constructive or informative to add.

Wilkey
 
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