The Problem with Poker

[steamboat]

Rod & FOG’s if any of this is incorrect, please jump in and set me straight.

Well it isn’t actually a problem, I want everyone to understand the CigarPass poker forum was closed for a reason and I am not taking us back down that road.

We were playing for sticks and Rod and/or the FOG’s had to step in to help collect gambling debts and the forums got filled up with Poker related drama which was unacceptable. This is the primary reason the poker forum was closed, IIRC.

Someone will always get in over their heads and there are always predators around poker. Poker is a predatory game, if it wasn’t predatory, it wouldn’t be poker, it would be Old Maid or Go Fish, etc. So we cannot be naive and think ‘We are all BOTL’s, nobody is going to take advantage!” It is the very nature of Poker to eat the weak.

It is my understanding that if we all want to get together and play a tourney on Stars or elsewhere, it is a free country and we can do what we like but don’t drag any baggage back here to CigarPass.

I have no problem setting up tourneys for the BOTL’s, it doesn’t cost me anything and I don’t get compensated from tourneys like this last one. As long as Rod or the FOG’s have no objections, just give me a little notice and I will set up another.

I will not set up a tourney or game where we play for sticks and I won’t name it a CigarPass tourney.
I will name it something generic, like Steamboat’s tourney or BOTL’s tourney but I won’t tie CigarPass to it in any way, only because I think it is bad manners to attach the CigarPass name to something they don’t endorse.

In the tourney thread a BOTL proposed placing a bounty on his own head. A bounty is a prize or award for busting someone out of a tourney. He is saying, “If you can bust me, I will send you a bomb.” I don’t see any problem with that and there is no way to prevent side action, but the second it gets out of hand or causes any drama, that is the end of my participation in poker tourneys.

I am NOT getting banned over poker tourneys and I am not going to be a party to anything that creates drama or causes problems for Rod or the FOG’s so I reserve the right to pull the plug at any moment for any reason.

It doesn’t require a special ticket at Stars to create private tourneys. If you are a regular player and have been there a while, just email support and you can make them also.

On a lighter note, if Rod were to join us, I have an 07’ Shark for the BOTL that busts him.

P.S. If Rod objects in anyway for any reason, we are done, over, period, no question marks or debate.

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

Avoid any drama, contact Rod directly : Link

Seems to me that he has already made it clear that he would prefer to keep all use of Cigarpass resources and poker activities separate.

 

[steamboat]

Avoid any drama, contact Rod directly : Link

Seems to me that he has already made it clear that he would prefer to keep all use of Cigarpass resources and poker activities separate.

I contacted Rod first, I am just giving a heads up to the interested parties.

 

[Dsav101]

I just want to post that it is Rods board and his decisions, however the poker had about the same number of issues as the regular board did as well. Just a little FYI, since there really was not any issues there except a few which we can all see here on the board as well.

Don

 

[Martimus00]

I read this post title a little more literally. Thus....
The Problem with Poker: The element of luck. It can be removed somewhat but is always there... a lurking monster waiting to help a noob suck out.

 

[steamboat]

I read this post title a little more literally. Thus....
The Problem with Poker: The element of luck. It can be removed somewhat but is always there... a lurking monster waiting to help a noob suck out.

Yes, but you got it backwards, the Element of luck is what keeps the games good and fuels Poker's popularity. On any given day, any player can catch good cards and beat the best in the world. They can't do it forever because eventually luck evens out and skill becomes the deciding factor.

It is a lot of fun to sit around a poker table when the game is good and people are having a good time. It is also fun to play big, because of the competitive nature of the game and the challenge of playing against skillful players.

 

[tsmckenney]

I'd be all for it, but don't you need to have a (minimum) balance with these online places to play? Also, is it possible to play on a Tue or Weds? It seems these tourneys are always on TR. I herf on TR. Just saying.

 

[sinnyc]

***Disclaimer: I am a gambler but I don't play poker so I have no dogs in this race.***

I thought I'd point out that any issues that might arise with a CP member welshing on a side bet (or otherwise being a douche) in a poker game outside of, and unaffiliated in any way with, CP would pose an interesting problem.

The Buy/Sell/Trade & Group Purchases Forum states the following in its rules:

"PLEASE NOTE: Other forums have the philosophy of "buyer beware!". We take pride in our community, therefore, ALL members here watch out for each other, and we encourage them to speak up when they see something un-kosher occur. E-Bay ratings, participation on other forums, etc do not justify or otherwise replace our rules. Your reputation at CP is all that matters.

What that means is that we all look out for each other and that the only currency we value is the currency of the reputation you build here as a CP member. When someone does something that doesn't pass the smell test here at CP, they are called out and the problem is either rectified or the cause is removed. But that is here on CP. What about outside of our board?

The potential problem I see is this: what if CP member X does, in fact, welsh on a side bet? As Steamboat has clearly stated, he doesn't want any of this connected to CP. But how should other members aware of X's actions react here on Cigar Pass? If they post about it they are bringing what is specifically and by design non-CP business back on to the board. If they don't, are they letting a member off the hook for unacceptable behavior? Should a member such as X be called out for things that occur off the board when the rules I quoted above state "Your reputation at CP is all that matters"?

I bring this up because, as Steamboat pointed out, there have been past issues among the CP poker players and I agree with him that they are bound to happen again. I'm not trying to hose Steamboat's efforts to play cards with friends but I'm curious about how this might work?

Part of me thinks that what happens off the board is not CP business. On the other hand, if there is a member here who has a habit of not following through on his end of agreements, I'd like to know so that I don't end up on the short end at some point.

Sorry to stir the pot...

- Tim

 

[tomthirtysix]

To piggy-back on Tim's post, there is a similar situation going on down in the "Cigar Lounge"

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=53479

A CPer was selling sticks on flea-bay and has shorted another member here.

While not exactly the same, I'm sure some useful parallels can be drawn from there should the need arise with the poker tourneys.

 

[sinnyc]

To piggy-back on Tim's post, there is a similar situation going on down in the "Cigar Lounge"

http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/index.php?showtopic=53479

A CPer was selling sticks on flea-bay and has shorted another member here.

While not exactly the same, I'm sure some useful parallels can be drawn from there should the need arise with the poker tourneys.

Thanks for the illuminating info. Yep that is exactly what I was worried about.

Well, I think the thread that tomthritysix referenced more or less answered my question. To wit: if you are a CP'er and are involved in something elsewhere that either causes trouble here, brings your reputation into question, and/or reveals you to be someone that the rest of us might not wish to be associated with you get called out so the CP community is aware of your actions. That works just fine for me.

- Tim

 

[steamboat]

***Disclaimer: I am a gambler but I don't play poker so I have no dogs in this race.***

I thought I'd point out that any issues that might arise with a CP member welshing on a side bet (or otherwise being a douche) in a poker game outside of, and unaffiliated in any way with, CP would pose an interesting problem.

The Buy/Sell/Trade & Group Purchases Forum states the following in its rules:

"PLEASE NOTE: Other forums have the philosophy of "buyer beware!". We take pride in our community, therefore, ALL members here watch out for each other, and we encourage them to speak up when they see something un-kosher occur. E-Bay ratings, participation on other forums, etc do not justify or otherwise replace our rules. Your reputation at CP is all that matters.

What that means is that we all look out for each other and that the only currency we value is the currency of the reputation you build here as a CP member. When someone does something that doesn't pass the smell test here at CP, they are called out and the problem is either rectified or the cause is removed. But that is here on CP. What about outside of our board?

The potential problem I see is this: what if CP member X does, in fact, welsh on a side bet? As Steamboat has clearly stated, he doesn't want any of this connected to CP. But how should other members aware of X's actions react here on Cigar Pass? If they post about it they are bringing what is specifically and by design non-CP business back on to the board. If they don't, are they letting a member off the hook for unacceptable behavior? Should a member such as X be called out for things that occur off the board when the rules I quoted above state "Your reputation at CP is all that matters"?

I bring this up because, as Steamboat pointed out, there have been past issues among the CP poker players and I agree with him that they are bound to happen again. I'm not trying to hose Steamboat's efforts to play cards with friends but I'm curious about how this might work?

Part of me thinks that what happens off the board is not CP business. On the other hand, if there is a member here who has a habit of not following through on his end of agreements, I'd like to know so that I don't end up on the short end at some point.

Sorry to stir the pot...

- Tim

I welcome this type of input. I am off to read the thread mentioned above.

 

[Rod]

This is a catch 22. Obviously you are free to do as you please as far as playing poker with your friends outside of CP. Much like in real life, if you have some buddies (who are also members of CP) and invite them over to your house to play in person, you are responsible for collecting any debts owed. I don't want to see any discussion of uncollected debts posted here. I don't want poker to be affiliated with CP in any way. If debts start going unpaid again, please do not bring it here in search of restitution. If it happens to make it's way back to CP, any poker related threads will be banned from CP.

I want zero affiliation with unpaid debts. I suggest you play friendly games, however if you decide to play for cigars, I don't want to know about it.

 

[Dsav101]

Just another quick little .02. How does it differ the random person that welshes here or playing poker or selling on ebay, or any other way? I think they are all the same. there is risk of that in any transaction, right or wrong, and as long as we the community police it and "out" the people and make others aware of anything that happens then we are better off that way. if rod feels that it is better to not have anything posted about poker or any other place where issues have arisen, that is his right. But either way I can imagine there still being poker and still would sometimes be issues brought up. Just a thought. I am OK without having the poker room, although I miss it since we had alot of fun.

Don