To the MEMBERS of cigarpass

[gtphale]

I want to apologize for my part in what has taken place over the last couple months. I let another member get to me in a way I never should of. Because of these actions you guys got stuck with a lot of useless bickering, and wasted time reading all the garbage that went on.

It is very hard to put into words how I feel about what has happened. There has been a black spot put into this brotherhood that I was part of and I'm very sorry for that. I'm not a big forum guy and don't spend a lot of time on boards, but in this place I have found something I really enjoy being part of.

You guys are a very special group of people that I one day hope to enjoy a stick with and trade some special sticks with one day. I am really looking forward to the herf in Vegas to meet as many of you as possible. Swissy I'm really sorry you can't make it cause your on person I would love to meet one day. Cause that is what I really enjoy about the cigar society. I have learned a lot while being here and hope to learn a lot more as time goes on. This apology can not and will not change the way a lot of you view me and that is fine. I can accept that, but I hope that the day comes that when I meet those people we can sit down and enjoy a great cigar and iron things out. Thats how a brotherhood is supposed to be.

To Bill I'm not sure if you can see this or not,but I know that one of your pals will most likely find away to get this to you. I'm sorry for what has happened between us. Things got way to carried away and they never should of. I will not apologize for my original post that started this, but do apologize for the ones that followed. We should of been able to settle what happened in another matter. This might not mean anything to you, and you still may hate me and call me an asshat and who knows what else, but that is fine. We may never be able to get along, but thats how things go.

For those that sent me PM's and emails supporting me, I'm very thankful for. I will always remember that, and be forever grateful.

Steve

 

[AVB]

Needless to say, you’ll be on close scrutiny for quite some time.

 

[SamClemmons]

To your secret pen pals: Way to go boys. Way to stand up and act like you got a pair.

To Hale: Nice that you were able to spread the blame around without taking all the heat. This just proves the rule.

NA

 

[Diesel Grinch]

I want to apologize for my part in what has taken place over the last couple months. I let another member get to me in a way I never should of. Because of these actions you guys got stuck with a lot of useless bickering, and wasted time reading all the garbage that went on.

It is very hard to put into words how I feel about what has happened. There has been a black spot put into this brotherhood that I was part of and I'm very sorry for that. I'm not a big forum guy and don't spend a lot of time on boards, but in this place I have found something I really enjoy being part of.

You guys are a very special group of people that I one day hope to enjoy a stick with and trade some special sticks with one day. I am really looking forward to the herf in Vegas to meet as many of you as possible. Swissy I'm really sorry you can't make it cause your on person I would love to meet one day. Cause that is what I really enjoy about the cigar society. I have learned a lot while being here and hope to learn a lot more as time goes on. This apology can not and will not change the way a lot of you view me and that is fine. I can accept that, but I hope that the day comes that when I meet those people we can sit down and enjoy a great cigar and iron things out. Thats how a brotherhood is supposed to be.

To Bill I'm not sure if you can see this or not,but I know that one of your pals will most likely find away to get this to you. I'm sorry for what has happened between us. Things got way to carried away and they never should of. I will not apologize for my original post that started this, but do apologize for the ones that followed. We should of been able to settle what happened in another matter. This might not mean anything to you, and you still may hate me and call me an asshat and who knows what else, but that is fine. We may never be able to get along, but thats how things go.

For those that sent me PM's and emails supporting me, I'm very thankful for. I will always remember that, and be forever grateful.

Steve

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Didn't you say you where taking your Ball and going home. For the record Steve I dislike some of the things you said later after this mess started. I also dislike it when people don't get there way and decide to take there ball and go home, but I think you know that.


Besides Bill doesn't Hate you. Your not worthy of Hate. Dislikes you yes, Hate you no.

Also for those secret PM and E-mails. If you do support him have the balls to say it out in the open.




DG

 

[Wurm]

Why DG so they can get jumped on as well?

Why is it an apology is never enough around this place for some people?

And no I never PMed him offering my support, but enough is enough.

 

[ggiese]

Why DG so they can get jumped on as well?

Why is it an apology is never enough around this place for some people?

And no I never PMed him offering my support, but enough is enough.

[snapback]299946[/snapback]​

Hale has some making up to do. If the apology is an explanation of behavior - it's not enough. The apology is a start. But - the apology is never enough unless it's backed up with some sincere actions showing the person knows they did wrong and wants to make things better.

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

I will not apologize for my original post that started this, but do apologize for the ones that followed.

???

I fail to see the value of an apology with limitations. GTPHale has brought far more turmoil than positive contributions to this community. Wake up.

 

[The Master]

That was a very nice apology and I for one think it was very sincere.

Wurm said " Why is it an apology is never enough around this place for some people? "

I also would like to understand why this is the case. I haven't seen any thread detailing his robbing someone, or keeping people waiting for months on his end. Maybe someone can explain to me why his apology isn't good enough.

 

[kiltedcraftsman]

Why is it an apology is never enough around this place for some people?

And no I never PMed him offering my support, but enough is enough.

[snapback]299946[/snapback]​

Agreed.

 

[Tenpin]

With respect to the Group Buy I am in, I support Steve.
He had a rough spot with the Sancho Panzas, but he came through.
I am in this GB because I don't want the risk or expense of finding and working with sources.
I understand the FOGs are trying to protect the rest of us here, but to keep a running commentary of personal issues in the GB thread is counterproductive.

Maybe there should be a way to make a thread READ-ONLY to all but invited participants (Rod, are you listening?). That way, if there are issues outside a GB, they can be vented in a separate thread and only those directly involved can communicate easily.

On the flip side of this, I do not have an opinion.
I do not know what started these wars, nor to I want to, as I don't feel I should be involved in anyone's business other than my own.

Hopefully I have not made any spelling or grammatical errors in this post (I will not edit it), since I know one of the most egregious issues here are those not learned in elementary English classes.

Jim

 

[ggiese]

That was a very nice apology and I for one think it was very sincere.

Wurm said " Why is it an apology is never enough around this place for some people? "

I also would like to understand why this is the case. I haven't seen any thread detailing his robbing someone, or keeping people waiting for months on his end. Maybe someone can explain to me why his apology isn't good enough.

[snapback]299971[/snapback]​

Harris - I know quite a bit more about this entire situation than most on this board. If I'm questioning his apology, there's a damn good reason for it. Given what I know - I'm leary of it. I could be wrong - and in that regard, I'd like to see his apology backed up with action.

Steve - you know exactly what I'm talking about. You've heared what I've said LONG before this all blew up to the point it is now. I'm hoping what you're saying in your apology post is in response to some of our discussions. To be quite honest - based upon our interactions - I'm very shocked you posted an apology. Given you've had no contact with me since our last conversationa and before this apology was made (and you do have my cell phone number) I'm not sure what your intention is. In a word - I'm skeptical...

To the rest of the board. No one TRULY knows what's in your heart other than what you show through your actions. I see some selfishness going on - I see some flippant attitudes - I see egos gone rampant... But I also see members demonstrating sincere concern for other members, even though it appears they are trying to turn everything into a flame fest. In my view - if you want to be a part of this community you can take the occasional ball busting without going ballistic. If someone corrects your grammar and spelling - SO WHAT!!! What's the big deal... Add a spell checker to your browser. This gets back to the towel snapping analogy I made in the last few days.

Since all of these recent series of events went south there has developed a NEW situation with a new member and some of his sales/trades. He was pretty nasty when he was initially asked about his motivations in doing certain things (i.e. erasing posts after the sale was complete). First off - that kind of rude behavior is uncalled for. While you may not like the way the message was presented - it does you and everyone else no good to act defiant in the face of that. And to those of you who have a problem with people calling other people out - I'm sorry - this is a close community of individuals who care about what goes on here. The "newbie's" can't possibly understand that (and yes, I'm talking primarily about those that have been around for less than a year). The older members, who have a much larger stake in this community because they've decided to make this place their home and have developed strong ties to other members, don't want it invaded with people who would act like fools and try and rally other members to "change" things.

 

[NullSmurf]

George, I can't tell you how refreshing it was to read your articulate post! I'm so damned tired of folks circling the tree like dogs, each lifting his leg trying to overpower the last. You prove its possible to make your point, even to dissent without name calling.

I'm reserving judgement on Hale. I'll see him in May and I'll know where I stand then.

 

[kiltedcraftsman]

That was a very nice apology and I for one think it was very sincere.

Wurm said " Why is it an apology is never enough around this place for some people? "

I also would like to understand why this is the case. I haven't seen any thread detailing his robbing someone, or keeping people waiting for months on his end. Maybe someone can explain to me why his apology isn't good enough.

[snapback]299971[/snapback]​

Harris - I know quite a bit more about this entire situation than most on this board. If I'm questioning his apology, there's a damn good reason for it. Given what I know - I'm leary of it. I could be wrong - and in that regard, I'd like to see his apology backed up with action.

Steve - you know exactly what I'm talking about. You've heared what I've said LONG before this all blew up to the point it is now. I'm hoping what you're saying in your apology post is in response to some of our discussions. To be quite honest - based upon our interactions - I'm very shocked you posted an apology. Given you've had no contact with me since our last conversationa and before this apology was made (and you do have my cell phone number) I'm not sure what your intention is. In a word - I'm skeptical...

To the rest of the board. No one TRULY knows what's in your heart other than what you show through your actions. I see some selfishness going on - I see some flippant attitudes - I see egos gone rampant... But I also see members demonstrating sincere concern for other members, even though it appears they are trying to turn everything into a flame fest. In my view - if you want to be a part of this community you can take the occasional ball busting without going ballistic. If someone corrects your grammar and spelling - SO WHAT!!! What's the big deal... Add a spell checker to your browser. This gets back to the towel snapping analogy I made in the last few days.

Since all of these recent series of events went south there has developed a NEW situation with a new member and some of his sales/trades. He was pretty nasty when he was initially asked about his motivations in doing certain things (i.e. erasing posts after the sale was complete). First off - that kind of rude behavior is uncalled for. While you may not like the way the message was presented - it does you and everyone else no good to act defiant in the face of that. And to those of you who have a problem with people calling other people out - I'm sorry - this is a close community of individuals who care about what goes on here. The "newbie's" can't possibly understand that (and yes, I'm talking primarily about those that have been around for less than a year). The older members, who have a much larger stake in this community because they've decided to make this place their home and have developed strong ties to other members, don't want it invaded with people who would act like fools and try and rally other members to "change" things.

[snapback]300038[/snapback]​

I think Hawk said it best here:

We are a community, a family, if you will. And like any family with lots of brothers, the brothers are gonna scrap from time to time. Does that mean they stop caring for each other? Does that mean they stop trying to teach and help each other? I'd like to think not.

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Time to move on..IMO.

 

[cigardawg]

To the rest of the board. No one TRULY knows what's in your heart other than what you show through your actions. I see some selfishness going on - I see some flippant attitudes - I see egos gone rampant... But I also see members demonstrating sincere concern for other members, even though it appears they are trying to turn everything into a flame fest. In my view - if you want to be a part of this community you can take the occasional ball busting without going ballistic. If someone corrects your grammar and spelling - SO WHAT!!! What's the big deal... Add a spell checker to your browser. This gets back to the towel snapping analogy I made in the last few days.

Since all of these recent series of events went south there has developed a NEW situation with a new member and some of his sales/trades. He was pretty nasty when he was initially asked about his motivations in doing certain things (i.e. erasing posts after the sale was complete). First off - that kind of rude behavior is uncalled for. While you may not like the way the message was presented - it does you and everyone else no good to act defiant in the face of that. And to those of you who have a problem with people calling other people out - I'm sorry - this is a close community of individuals who care about what goes on here. The "newbie's" can't possibly understand that (and yes, I'm talking primarily about those that have been around for less than a year). The older members, who have a much larger stake in this community because they've decided to make this place their home and have developed strong ties to other members, don't want it invaded with people who would act like fools and try and rally other members to "change" things.

[snapback]300038[/snapback]​

George...don't worry, my dog is still in it's kennel. However, I want to add an alternative view and/or approach. This is just from MY point of view, not a suggestion to change things.

With respect to the first part of the quoated material above, you are right no one does know what goes through another's heart. And I agree, skepticism is often warranted (and I'm not necessarily talking about this particular case). However, what I often see is that once someone makes an apology, there are some who won't let it go at that. They come in with the, "well if you'd just done this in the first place" and the "it's about damn time" or the popular "you think an apology is just going to make it all go away?" All of these might be true, but the person apologizing has taken a step (sometimes a big step) and some allowance should be made for that. Don't throw it in his face. Take the apology for what it is and then watch...does he change his ways? Does he make good what he said? Actually allow his actions to speak for him without further heating up the situation.

Second part...good-natured ball-busting is one thing, picking on someone is quite another. We are all intelligent enough to tell the difference. As for the spell checking/grammar correcting, I respectfully disagree. It think going through and correcting someones spelling/grammar mistakes is petty, useless, and uncalled for. Belittling them about it is even worse. I find it very offensive. I don't use a spell checker and I'm not going to start. If you want to bust someones balls about a play on words or an obvious and unintentional faux paus, fine. But picking on someone about their ability to spell or use correct grammar is just wasting band-width.

As to TJM that was selling gifted cigars/passed cigars...glad he got his a$$ banned. That is scumbag level and he should not be here. Thanks Emo, BC, Rod, and others. As to the approach to "pointing out the rules and/or confronting someone," I don't always agree with it. In this case, it worked out that it was warranted. What if it had not been? Would his indignation have then been warranted? I read the latest thread and didn't see unbalanced levels of nastiness or attitude on either side (this is debatable, of course...this is from my viewpoint). However, the general approach to these issues is often a bit harsh and would cause some righteous indignation in me were I approached this way. I am guilty of deleting a sale once it was done. To me, based on what I was selling, it was prudent. I stick by that. If someone had approached me in a public manner like the aforementioned thread, I might have gotten my feathers ruffled as well. I guess what I am saying is this, if you point something out to someone, do it as you would like to have it pointed out to you. If you would like to be called out in public, I guess that's the way to do it. If you would like a PM, then do it that way. There are many ways to watch out for this community that we all love than to publically call someone out.

The last thing I'll say on this subject is actually directed to you, George. If you'll remember, you demanded that I do something. Then you warned me to do it. When you asked me to do it, however, I was pretty quick to comply without conditions. The word "please" went a long way with me...I suspect it might with others.

Will there be change at CP? Of course, change is inevitable. Hopefully, the change will be for the good. Do I believe folks should come in here with a sense of entitlement, demanding things be done their way? Hell no. I believe the only thing a person is entitled to upon joining this board is the basic respect do another human being. It is that person's interactions with others that determine what privaleges they will receive. Yes, I mean I am privaleged to have herfed with the folks that I have, to be able to ask for information about cigars, to have developed the contacts and sources that I have, to have been able to do buys/trades/sales with a bunch of great BOTL. Those are the privaleges of which I speak. All members, old and new, gain and lose privaleges based on their interactions. You might not recognize it as such, but it still happens. CP works pretty darned well. I get irritated with some happenings, but it is still home (I get irritated with my family, but I still send X-mas cards ). For those who want to change it, stop working so hard at it. Sit back and enjoy this place..it's a good place to be. Those working so hard at preventing change, it is like trying to keep the universe from expanding or stop the tendency toward entropy...it won't happen. Let's keep the best stuff and allow and direct enough change to become better.

There we go, there's my 0.02. Of course, that might actually be 0.03. :blush:

 

[SamClemmons]

Ah the bleeding hearts. Ya gotta love 'em.

He's sorry somebody "got" to him and "made" him go bad. Wonder why that devious person was after him in the first place? Harris you surprise me! Wurm you don't!

An apology with qualifications is an excuse dressed as sincerity.

NA

 

[Wurm]

Ah the bleeding hearts. Ya gotta love 'em.

He's sorry somebody "got" to him and "made" him go bad. Wonder why that devious person was after him in the first place? Harris you surprise me! Wurm you don't!

An apology with qualifications is an excuse dressed as sincerity.

NA

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You don't surprise me either Sam. Glad we understand each other.

 

[NorCalCigarLover]

Good post c-dawg, you've actually helped me come to a decision on how to handle a certain situation .... thanks.

David

 

[The Master]

Sam, you know me, I never pull punches and when I see a scumbag you know how I deal with those.

I thought the apology was sincere, no I do not know every issue that is behind the scenes as GG said. If I am missing something then I have no problem admitting I was wrong. I just think that when someone makes that kind of apology then there should be a cooling off period where the apolgist gets to prove him self with his actions.

Do I think some people are beyond redemption.....yes. Do I think some people never deserve a second chance......you bet. In this case with the facts I have in hand, I think the kid deserves a second chance. I could very well be proven wrong, but that would be a first. lololol

 

[The Master]

One more thing,about the spelling police, I really think it is bull shit. Who gives a f*&ck if something is spelled wrong. If you want to flame someone, then do it based on something interesting, doing it on spelling shows absolutely zero imagination, true flamers are better than that.

 

[bfreebern]

....true flamers are better than that.

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Speaking from experience

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