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Pretty cool thread about "speed aging" over in the Club Stog

I

IanHummel

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
885
Location
Cincinnati, OH
I just read through this whole thread:

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=103569

Needless to say I'm very impressed. I think I'm going to go pick up a couple $5 smokes from my shop and try this and see how it works. Sounds to me like he's on to something interesting to say the least.
----------------------------

Here's the start of it posted by No1der:

So I bought a box of Padron 3000 Maduros a couple of days ago and noticed that they didn't taste as good as they usually do.

Further inspection revealed that date they were released at was July 31...

They are quite young. So I decided to try a little experiment.

Step 1. Took the Padron out of the Cello,
2. Vaccume seal that padron in one of those vaccuseal bags.
3. Put bag containing the padron into a pot of water and bring it up to a boil.
(there's no better way to get the essential oils of, anything, going like heat)
4. Let it boil for 3 minutes.
5. Transfer to a tupperware container and pour the now hot water over the baggie in the tupper, close the top and let sit for a few minutes.
6. Take the bag out of container, break the seal of the vacubag and pull cigar out.
7. Let cigar rest for a few hours, it's doing that right now, and than smoke it this evening and see what happens...

I'll let you guys know how this turns out if anyone is interested. So far the cigar looks a little "pressed" but nothing major otherwise.

Edit: What I am attempting to accomplish by this is to get the essential oils of the cigar to co-mingle with eath other through heat and pressure. They do this naturally but I thought that I could maybe speed up the proccess. I may have not given it enough time to "boil" long enough.

I didn't want to "cook" the cigar, just get the oils to co-mingle at a much quicker rate.

Edit 2: If you want to try this, take a dog rocket you have laying around and give it a go and see if it changes the tase for the better.

Here are the results:
Ok, she's been toasted and lit and as I type this I'll be smoking it.. So far, I think this may have been a success, bolder flavors are certainly noteworthy.

I think that less pressure and longer boiling should be tried. The pressure caused the cigar to wrinkle a bit but the burn is pretty darn good and the flavor is certainly there.

Edit: I'm now getting to the somewhat sweeter flavors. I'm a bit surprised by this as I seldom have padrons that have this quality but it is very pleasant with good tobacco flavors.

So far so good.

Edit 2:
The flavors are quite pleasant. Certainly the heart of Padron flavor is there but it's far more complex with creamy and sweet undertones.

The ash on it is the best I've seen on a padron. Tight with mostly white color and just a little pepper color mixed in.
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He posted a lot more, what are everyone here's thoughts on this?
 
Interesting concept - but for the fact that rushing something may make it 'different' and not what it's meant to be.

I'll wait for CC to try it first. His smokes are aging slowly at 60%!
 
Fella there is nothing like time to age a cigar or wine for that matter. Why rush the process and risk spoiling the cigar in question? There are no magic bullets to aging cigars, just personal preferences on the matter. I'm sure if you search out there you can find cigars at local shops that have some time on them or someone could send you an aged cigar.

The bottom line is you have to know what a new cigar tastes like young to appreciate an aged cigar. The other item is if you buy a box of cigars. Twenty five cigars and you smoke them at a rate of one every six months you'll have an idea how a specific cigar smokes. It's probably the cheapest form of aging that you can find. I would try a box of Padron 6000 for this experiment and get back to me in ten years and let me know if I'm right
 
tone-ny said:
Fella there is nothing like time to age a cigar or wine for that matter. Why rush the process and risk spoiling the cigar in question? There are no magic bullets to aging cigars, just personal preferences on the matter. I'm sure if you search out there you can find cigars at local shops that have some time on them or someone could send you an aged cigar.

The bottom line is you have to know what a new cigar tastes like young to appreciate an aged cigar. The other item is if you buy a box of cigars. Twenty five cigars and you smoke them at a rate of one every six months you'll have an idea how a specific cigar smokes. It's probably the cheapest form of aging that you can find. I would try a box of Padron 6000 for this experiment and get back to me in ten years and let me know if I'm right
Click to expand...

I agree in the fact that there is no reason to rush a process that makes the things we love that much better. I just posted this for the pure fact that it's quite interesting, that's all. :thumbs:
 
It just reminds me of those weight loss commercials, lose 30 pounds in 30 days :laugh:
 
The first thought that came to my mind was american mass produced beer thats rushed vs a good import beer that sits and ferments. Just not the same.
 
I thought cigar smoking was about relaxing? =)

In all honesty I appreciate what you've done here. I think I'll just let my smokes age naturally since I kindof dig the anticipation / waiting of having a cigar for months / years before actually smoking it.

Cheers,
Rob
 
Kinda takes the hobby part out of cigars. I like buying Padrons and taking care of them month after month until they mature to perfection and then taking one out of the humdidor and lighting it up to enjoy the great flavors that have developed with maturity and care.


It's like ribs:
You could cook up some ribs in the oven in a short period of time with some sauce and smoke flavoring and I suppose they'd taste OK but wouldn't you rather gently smoke them all day on your smoker and finish them with some great sauce to get that "I smoked these all day flavor"?.
 
The trick is to not use water, but instead use low-tox anti-freeze as the boiling medium. I thought everybody knew that! :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I'm not a very patient person, but I don't think I'd go to those extremes to try and rush the natural process.

Edited to add: If this was a viable option, I would suspect that some of the bigger cigar producers would already do something like this to help the quality of their sales, but who knows.
 
You guys can boil your Millenniums if you want, but I think my collection will pick up age the "old fashioned" way.... :cool:

Regards - B.B.S.
 
I will stick to the "old fashioned" way of aging cigars.
There is something aesthetically very pleasing about smoking a cigar that has been aging in your humidor for years.
I'm not sure I would get that from a "boil in bag" cigar...
 
I'd go as far as to say that the cigar ceased to be a Padron because of all the other characteristics that emerged.

No, this was no aging, this was something completely different but pleasantly surprising. The key was that the oils intermingled and created a unique smoking experience.
Click to expand...
This quote by the original poster summarizes the two key aspects of this experiment.

First, that this process produces something other than a Padron. Although a Padron cigar was the starting material, I'd argue that the end result of the process does not reflect a normally time-matured cigar of any age. Unless the chemistry of aging is vastly more simple than those who are knowledgeable in the field have demonstrated, cooking will never result in a straight line analog to time aging.

Second, his original hypothesis that elevated temperature and pressure will result in "co-mingling" of the essential oils of the cigars has not been verified in any meaningful sense. It's clear that the cigars experienced elevated temperatures. However, by virtue of the fact that he used a vacuum bagging system, the cigars actually experienced reduced atmospheric pressure. He seems to imply the the cigars were "pressed" by the physical pressure of the vacuum bag squeezing down on the cigars. But I have several Padron 1000 series boxes and they are pretty stiff wood. If in fact the top lid was squished in, I'd expect the cigars in the center to be subjected to more physical pressure than cigars at the edges where the walls will reduce lid flex.

In fact, there is no evidence that oils co-mingled. So then why did they feel oilier than fresh? Simply because they were subjected to reduced atmospheric pressure and elevated temperature. The process effectively drove the oils and other migratory components out of the interior of the leaves to exude to the surface. In essence, he was subjecting the cigars to a process not unlike rotary evaporation (distillation).

To sum up, this process would be expected to do something to the cigars. But this "something" is completely unrelated to aging processes.

I applaud the original poster's enthusiasm. However, this is a clear example of why we in the research field vet our questions and experimental designs before embarking on a study.

Wilkey
 
Ginseng said:
I'd go as far as to say that the cigar ceased to be a Padron because of all the other characteristics that emerged.

No, this was no aging, this was something completely different but pleasantly surprising. The key was that the oils intermingled and created a unique smoking experience.
Click to expand...
This quote by the original poster summarizes the two key aspects of this experiment.

First, that this process produces something other than a Padron. Although a Padron cigar was the starting material, I'd argue that the end result of the process does not reflect a normally time-matured cigar of any age. Unless the chemistry of aging is vastly more simple than those who are knowledgeable in the field have demonstrated, cooking will never result in a straight line analog to time aging.

Second, his original hypothesis that elevated temperature and pressure will result in "co-mingling" of the essential oils of the cigars has not been verified in any meaningful sense. It's clear that the cigars experienced elevated temperatures. However, by virtue of the fact that he used a vacuum bagging system, the cigars actually experienced reduced atmospheric pressure. He seems to imply the the cigars were "pressed" by the physical pressure of the vacuum bag squeezing down on the cigars. But I have several Padron 1000 series boxes and they are pretty stiff wood. If in fact the top lid was squished in, I'd expect the cigars in the center to be subjected to more physical pressure than cigars at the edges where the walls will reduce lid flex.

In fact, there is no evidence that oils co-mingled. So then why did they feel oilier than fresh? Simply because they were subjected to reduced atmospheric pressure and elevated temperature. The process effectively drove the oils and other migratory components out of the interior of the leaves to exude to the surface. In essence, he was subjecting the cigars to a process not unlike rotary evaporation (distillation).

To sum up, this process would be expected to do something to the cigars. But this "something" is completely unrelated to aging processes.

I applaud the original poster's enthusiasm. However, this is a clear example of why we in the research field vet our questions and experimental designs before embarking on a study.

Wilkey
Click to expand...

Translation: Speed aging is BS. :laugh:
Sorry Wilkey.

Once again, your knowledge and analysis hasgiven deeper insights into this issue than most of us could pretend to hope for.

Now, I've got to go. I have a few dog rockets that need boiling. Hell, whatever the "somthing" is, it must be an improvement!
 
Ian, bro, are you married?

Cuz, I'm trying to imagine my wife walking into the kitchen as I'm boiling cigars in a plastic baggie............

I think, for once, she would be speechless. Then she would have me committed.

I'm not 'bagging' on ya dude, this is just good humor. I hope you can see that.
 
smokelaw1 said:
Translation: Speed aging is BS. :laugh:
Sorry Wilkey.

Once again, your knowledge and analysis hasgiven deeper insights into this issue than most of us could pretend to hope for.

Now, I've got to go. I have a few dog rockets that need boiling. Hell, whatever the "somthing" is, it must be an improvement!
Click to expand...
Hey Josh,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that folks appreciate the time and effort I put into my content posts. You should know that I am just as grateful when a reader takes the time to read and even more so when they respond back with an intelligent comment of their own.

Well, except for Zee. This guy's a smartass 24/7 :p

Best,
Wilkey
 
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