Wine fridge (w/condenser), humidity problems, solution?

[mikenmar]

Gah... it would appear I did not research this thoroughly enough beforehand.

I recently got a wine cooler to hold my cigars, but every time the compressor/fan goes on, the humidity basically goes to zero. After searching around here, I gather that I made a big mistake by getting a condenser unit, instead of a thermoelectric unit.

Question: Suppose I have several wood humidors that can fit in the fridge. I can put humidifiers inside the wood units, and put the wood units in the fridge. Has anyone tried this successfully? Or is the humidity suck so bad that even the interior of the wood units are bound to get dried out?

 

[masterp0606]

Sell it and get a thermoelectric one.

 

[chadth]

I am confused, where is the water/humidity going? Did you plug the drains? I have seen no evidence that a condenser removes humidity more then a Peltier setup. When air is cooled (regardless of how) the air can no longer hold the same volume of water. The water usually beads up and is seen aso condensation. Most fridges deal with the excess water by draining it and evaporating it externally. If you plug this path, the water won't escape and will return into the air once things stabilize. The trick is dealing with the water until that happens. Perhaps some additional information on your setup might help.

Thanks,
-Chad

 

[tmoney2007]

Compressors refrigerators have 2 settings... on and off. It can't cool to a temperature, it just gets as cold as it can. It condenses most of the moisture out of the air, so all that is left is as much water as the air can hold at 28-32 degrees, not 68 degrees. Pulling the rh way lower than a peltier cooler would.

Even if the moisture doesn't leave the container, you have to wait for it to evaporate back into the air, which isn't instantaneous. This causes humidity swings in cigars, which aren't good.

In short, compressor based refrigeration systems *do* pull more moisture out of the air than peltier cooled units.

Even if you can harvest the water that condenses out of the air and put it into beads, they won't instantly bring the humidity from nearly nil. You're better off selling it and getting a thermo-electric unit.

 

[chadth]

Compressors refrigerators have 2 settings... on and off. It can't cool to a temperature, it just gets as cold as it can. It condenses most of the moisture out of the air, so all that is left is as much water as the air can hold at 28-32 degrees, not 68 degrees. Pulling the rh way lower than a peltier cooler would.

Even if the moisture doesn't leave the container, you have to wait for it to evaporate back into the air, which isn't instantaneous. This causes humidity swings in cigars, which aren't good.

In short, compressor based refrigeration systems *do* pull more moisture out of the air than peltier cooled units.

Even if you can harvest the water that condenses out of the air and put it into beads, they won't instantly bring the humidity from nearly nil. You're better off selling it and getting a thermo-electric unit.

Excellent point. So as a solution, consider using a separate thermostat to better control the temperature. Something like this thermostat

 

[in2xshp]

I have no problems with mine it actually has a digi temp setting that goes to 65 degrees. I keep it there and when it cycles on a hot day it may only drop 2-3 degrees and maybe 5% rh at best. i have a bunch of boxes in there that i hold my singles in and a few sheets of spanish cedar to help control the rh along with over a lb of beads scattered in three differnt places in the wine-o-dor.

 

[tmoney2007]

I think lots of cedar and lots of beads in different places around the cooler would be the best solution. A secondary thermostat is only going to help if you are using a regular refrigerator that won't allow you to set the temperature up to 60+ degrees.

edit: and I would close the boxes once they are seasoned.

 

[klipsch]

You don't mention the temp range of your cooler. Forget about a "secondary" thermostat...just swap it out entirely for a digital. I'm looking at digital thermo's right now in case I don't see the temp on the new EdgeStar coming up to the mid 60's once the higher ambient temps hit. Luckily, it's supposed to hit 80 this weekend. I can almost guarantee that there's a contactor controlling the compressor on your cooler. Is so, swapping out the low voltage thermo will fix the temp problem for less than $40. If there's a fan used to pump in the cold air...that's not going to help matters, so closed boxes may be the best all around choice. That's the main reason I decided to go with closed cedar trays instead of open. Regardless of what you do to get better control of the temp, your cooler is going to be more expensive to run than a thermo-electric just because of the compressor motor.

 

[mikenmar]

Hey all, Thanks for the feedback.

The unit in question is a Magic Chef 45-Bottle Wine Cooler, Model No. MCWC45A.

As far as where the water goes, I don't know, but every time the compressor kicks in, the RH drops dramatically. It isn't a problem on cool days, but on hot days, it's a very dramatic effect.

Right now I've got separate wood humidors inside, with their own humidifers inside of them. That seems to be working OK, so far anyway. If it doesn't work into the summer, I'll look into a separate thermostat.

BTW, how does one get that thermostat into the fridge?

 

[chadth]

BTW, how does one get that thermostat into the fridge?

This one at Amazon plugs into the outlet, and your fridge into it. The thermostat itself is mounted externally (mine is in the back) and the thermometer can be ran around the outside of the unit and between the door and seal. The wire that connects the thermometer is real thin. However, I decided to drill a hole through the sheet metal and interior plastic to avoid having to run it externally.

Hope this helps,
-Chad

 

[mikenmar]

I'm a bit confused about how changing the thermostat would solve the problem. The fridge is still using a compressor/condenser to chill the air, right?

 

[in2xshp]

Below was taken from the site. It will allow for a higher temp setting. My wine-o-dor already has a digital temp setting that goes to 65, when it cycles from that temp it only drops a couple of degrees so it's really not that large of a shocl to the sticks inside.

Product Features
Great for turning a chest freezer into a keg refrigerator.
Easy to set up and use.
Plug unit into wall and then run the sensor into your freezer.
Temperature range: 20º - 80ºF.
Easy to adjust with a quick turn of the dial.

 

[chadth]

I'm a bit confused about how changing the thermostat would solve the problem. The fridge is still using a compressor/condenser to chill the air, right?

A compressor doesn't, by itself, cause more issues for humidity then a peltier device as they are both simply cooling the air. The argument was made by tmoney2007 that some compressor units will cool to their maximum temperature and since the temperature has a large swing, that more water in the air is being pushed out. If this is true in your case, then a thermostat with finer control would help.

Perhaps we could move away from speculation if you could provide some additional information such as how hot is a normal day there, how cold is your fridge cooling too, what is the start and ending humidity, how are you maintaining humidity, did you plug the water drain holes, and what is the extent of the RH swing?

-Chad

 

[tmoney2007]

Compressor style coolers don't have different temperature settings really, they just cycle on and off at different intervals to produce the desired mean temperature.

A thermostat isn't going to help with the humidity problem.

 

[mikenmar]

Perhaps we could move away from speculation if you could provide some additional information such as how hot is a normal day there, how cold is your fridge cooling too, what is the start and ending humidity, how are you maintaining humidity, did you plug the water drain holes, and what is the extent of the RH swing?

-Chad

I'm in Nor. Cal., so a "hot day" here is in the high 80s, low 90s. That's probably a dozen or two dozen days out of the summer. Most days in the summer range from the mid 60s to the mid 80s or so.

I'm trying to get the fridge to keep a constant temp around 65F with 65% RH if possible.

The RH swings like crazy. Once the compressor kicks in, it drops to near-zero (unreadable on the meter) in a matter of minutes.

I am keeping a free-standing tray of water inside the fridge. On a string of cool days, when the compressor doesn't kick in, the RH can go up to 80%.

 

[chadth]

I'm trying to get the fridge to keep a constant temp around 65F with 65% RH if possible.

What temperature is it actually cooling to and from what? Is it cooling from 80 to 65? Bigger temperature swings are going to cause bigger RH swings, you might want to consider upping the temperature to 70.

I am keeping a free-standing tray of water inside the fridge. On a string of cool days, when the compressor doesn't kick in, the RH can go up to 80%.

Bad idea. Use beads, plug your drains, and channel any condensation back into the beads. Your cigars aren't going to have all the moisture sucked out of them in seconds or minutes. The boxes they are in and the beads will help insulate this. RH swings are going to happen when cooling but try and put the fridge in a already cool place like the basement, air conditioned room, etc.

Good luck.

 

[mikenmar]

What temperature is it actually cooling to and from what? Is it cooling from 80 to 65? Bigger temperature swings are going to cause bigger RH swings, you might want to consider upping the temperature to 70.

It stays right around 65F, actually. The problem isn't swings in temperature, it's swings in RH caused by the condenser.

Bad idea. Use beads, plug your drains, and channel any condensation back into the beads. Your cigars aren't going to have all the moisture sucked out of them in seconds or minutes. The boxes they are in and the beads will help insulate this. RH swings are going to happen when cooling but try and put the fridge in a already cool place like the basement, air conditioned room, etc.

Well right now, the RH inside the wood humidor in the fridge stays at 65%. Should I care what the RH in the rest of the fridge is? (That's the main question of my thread, actually.)