MilesMingusMonk
Breaking Wind Master
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Silica Gel Beads experiments today ~ FrankenDucksteins tomorrow? ???
A Silica Gel Bead Conditioning Experiment
- Thread starter Allofus123
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Silica Gel Beads experiments today ~ FrankenDucksteins tomorrow? ???
Allofus123
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I've done a few "duck" experiments in my time...lol!
OK, this started out to see if I could condition unconditioned KL with conditioned beads. In my case it will be with conditioned KL. The unconditioned KL I had planned to use was thought to be unconditioned, but, after sitting in the garage for many years they have conditioned themselves to the average rh of my garage. Currently, I'm trying to establish what they are conditioned to.
With this last picture I have established the KL to be conditioned in a range of 62 to 70%. I feel the high reading of 70% was from oversaturation and now that I have allowed the beads to dry will commence adding very small amounts of distilled water. I will add 1/2 cc every other day or so. I feel we'll see a conditioned rh point inbetween.
I have been looking for KL at the stores around here but as many others have found it seems most places are now carrying the stuff with the color indicators. Another member here has been gracious enough to send me some overflow he had so once I feel confident of the conditioned rh level of the beads I have my original experiment will be back on. :thumbs:
Allofus123
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Received the unconditioned 100% Silica Gel Kitty Litter from a very generous member (thank you Jonesy :thumbs: ) and have had it testing for 24 hours. Looks like the unconditioned rh point is in the mid 30's which concurs with what others have found with fresh unconditioned KL.
Previously I had stated I would be adding 1/2 cc of distilled water to my conditioned beads to bring them up to their conditioned point but found that with the amount of conditioned beads I'm using I really needed to up the amount I was adding to at least a full cc each day to get any kind of movement. My conditioned beads currently are at 64% and I feel after a few more days of adding water will settle around 65/67.
I really want to thank Jonesy again for sending me the fresh KL. I prob would have dropped this without it since I have been unable to find the 100% pure Silca Gel KL without the color indicators.
More to follow......
Previously I had stated I would be adding 1/2 cc of distilled water to my conditioned beads to bring them up to their conditioned point but found that with the amount of conditioned beads I'm using I really needed to up the amount I was adding to at least a full cc each day to get any kind of movement. My conditioned beads currently are at 64% and I feel after a few more days of adding water will settle around 65/67.
I really want to thank Jonesy again for sending me the fresh KL. I prob would have dropped this without it since I have been unable to find the 100% pure Silca Gel KL without the color indicators.
More to follow......
Allofus123
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No picture today, just an update.
The conditioned beads reached 65% Saturday evening and was still at 65% this morning so I decided to go ahead and introduce the unconditioned beads. The unconditioned beads had a reading of 32% when I added them. The beads naturally zapped the humidity down immeadiately so I gave the conditioned beads a couple CC's of distilled water to try and counter. I currently have a reading of 60% in the humi and will take another look in the morning to see what my next move will be. Most likely I will need to add some more water.
My hopes are that after the first three or four days I can get the conditioned beads to stablize the humidor around the 65% mark. If so the rest of this will be a piece of cake. More to follow........
The conditioned beads reached 65% Saturday evening and was still at 65% this morning so I decided to go ahead and introduce the unconditioned beads. The unconditioned beads had a reading of 32% when I added them. The beads naturally zapped the humidity down immeadiately so I gave the conditioned beads a couple CC's of distilled water to try and counter. I currently have a reading of 60% in the humi and will take another look in the morning to see what my next move will be. Most likely I will need to add some more water.
My hopes are that after the first three or four days I can get the conditioned beads to stablize the humidor around the 65% mark. If so the rest of this will be a piece of cake. More to follow........
LilBastage
Meat is murder! Tasty, tasty murder.
Following closely, waiting for the results with bated breath...
Allofus123
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Humi still reading 60% this morning so I added about 3 cc's of distilled water to the conditioned beads and stirred the unconditioned beads. Its important to stir the unconditioned beads so that all of the beads are able to absorb/hydrate. Beads work from the exposed surface so the more bead surface available the better they can absorb and release. Note that the container I am using for the unconditioned beads is a little flatter to allow more surface availability of the beads.
My current thoughts are that I am being a little to conservative with the amount of distilled water I've been adding to the conditioned beads. I'm thinking at least in the beginning the unconditioned beads are sucking up the moisture pretty fast. I'll get another reading tonight and if no upward movement in rh is realized I'll give them another shot of distilled water.
Was asked this question in a PM and thought I would mention it here. I am not adding any distilled water to the unconditioned beads. They are being conditioned only through the absorbtion of what the conditioned beads are putting out.
My current thoughts are that I am being a little to conservative with the amount of distilled water I've been adding to the conditioned beads. I'm thinking at least in the beginning the unconditioned beads are sucking up the moisture pretty fast. I'll get another reading tonight and if no upward movement in rh is realized I'll give them another shot of distilled water.
Was asked this question in a PM and thought I would mention it here. I am not adding any distilled water to the unconditioned beads. They are being conditioned only through the absorbtion of what the conditioned beads are putting out.
Allofus123
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Looks like we're moving in the right direction. The amount of distilled water added yesterday was upped to about 4 cc's. The amount I'm adding has become a judgement call. I want to create a consistent climb in rh in the humidor to the set point I'm going for which is 65%. As the uncondition beads absorb more and more and begin to equalize with the conditioned beads the daily addition of distilled water will prob end. We'll see........
Seems some people don't know their metric measurements. :laugh: Thought I would go ahead a post this to give those that don't know what a CC is an idea. Obvious it isn't very much and when adding distilled water to beads (any beads) less is best.
Seems some people don't know their metric measurements. :laugh: Thought I would go ahead a post this to give those that don't know what a CC is an idea. Obvious it isn't very much and when adding distilled water to beads (any beads) less is best.
NullSmurf
Das Bruce
Kenny, is it my imagination, or are the hydrated beads darker than the others? Are they picking up pigment fromt he cedar?
BkCloud114
I hate Moochers !!!!!
Awesome experiment.... this should be stickied for future reference....
My original beads are a shade darker than my newer ones also..... I am assuming it was either from the cigars or the wood....
My original beads are a shade darker than my newer ones also..... I am assuming it was either from the cigars or the wood....
Allofus123
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I had always thought that the coloration change was due to the tobacco, similar to how a cello yellows over time but I'm not so sure anymore. I have a lb of the original Silica Beads (known as Climmax Beads back then) which are about 5 maybe 6 years old and they have turned golden over time.
Here's a picture of those beads next to some brand new Kitty Litter.
Whats interesting is that the conditioned beads I'm using in the experiment (not the picture in this post) have never been in a humidor before. They have been sitting in my garage inside of a file cabinet for several years. They are not as yellow as the KL that has been in my cabinet the last few years but as noted there is some coloration differences. I don't have an answer for the color change but from what I can tell it does not appear to change the working properties.
Here's a picture of those beads next to some brand new Kitty Litter.
Whats interesting is that the conditioned beads I'm using in the experiment (not the picture in this post) have never been in a humidor before. They have been sitting in my garage inside of a file cabinet for several years. They are not as yellow as the KL that has been in my cabinet the last few years but as noted there is some coloration differences. I don't have an answer for the color change but from what I can tell it does not appear to change the working properties.
Allofus123
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If someone had told me it would only take three days to bring the humi up to my target rh of 65% I wouldn't have believed them. It almost seems to easy. I expected it to take up to a week or so. I do need to mention I saw the hygro flutter a few times to 66% which tells me I'm right on the cuff of 65/66%. If I can maintain a 65/66% rh I'll be very happy.
The fact that I was able to get the rh up to my desired set point so easily may have more to do with the amount of conditioned beads I'm using vs the amount I'm conditioning. I didn't measure either prior to starting this experiment and if I had to guess I'd say I have at least a 2 to 1, maybe 3 to 1, conditioned vs nonconditioned. I will measure them afterwards.
Now that I have my desired enviroment I only need to maintain it.... well, the beads will maintain it, which should be a snap. Each morning I will check the rh level and then stir the unconditioned beads. If the rh drops below my set point I add a very small amount of distilled water and I'm done. Total time to do this each morning is less than 60 secounds.
The fact that I was able to get the rh up to my desired set point so easily may have more to do with the amount of conditioned beads I'm using vs the amount I'm conditioning. I didn't measure either prior to starting this experiment and if I had to guess I'd say I have at least a 2 to 1, maybe 3 to 1, conditioned vs nonconditioned. I will measure them afterwards.
Now that I have my desired enviroment I only need to maintain it.... well, the beads will maintain it, which should be a snap. Each morning I will check the rh level and then stir the unconditioned beads. If the rh drops below my set point I add a very small amount of distilled water and I'm done. Total time to do this each morning is less than 60 secounds.
JHolmes763
Drinkin' the koolaid
Is the next step to remove all of the conditioned beads and ensure the "unconditioned" beads will maintain the humidity?
Allofus123
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Eventually yes..... there is an unknown here that I don't believe anyone has establish, to my knowledge, and that is how long do we need to leave the unconditioned beads in our desired enviroment for them to condition to that point. Several years ago I conditioned some KL using one of the small Oasis to keep the rh at my target. I left the unconditioned beads in that enviroment for two weeks, stirring everyday.
If the rh remains stable the the next day or two, I'm not adding water, I may test the unconditioned beads after the first week and see. If I'm still adding water then the unconditioned beads are still absorbing. So far that doesn't seem to be the case.
If the rh remains stable the the next day or two, I'm not adding water, I may test the unconditioned beads after the first week and see. If I'm still adding water then the unconditioned beads are still absorbing. So far that doesn't seem to be the case.
Allofus123
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When I checked the humi Saturday (4/14) I had a reading of 64%. I figured the unconditioned beads were still absorbing so I shot about 5 cc's of distilled water to the conditioned beads. On Sunday I had a 66% reading and again this morning it is reading 66%. (pic from this morning)
On Friday I saw the hygro flutter a few times between 65% and 66% so the 66% reading the last few days does not surprise me. As I've mentioned before the amount of water being added to the conditioned beads is strictly done on the fly. The decision to add water and how much is nothing more than a feeling of when and how much I need to maintain the enviroment. I'm likely at a stage where the unconditioned beads are finding an equalibrium with the conditioned beads and will not be absorbing much humidity from the enviroment as they would be in the beginning stages. I mention this because it influences the amount of water I will add if the rh changes. In the beginning you can get away with adding larger amounts of distilled water since the unconditioned beads are absorbing heavily..... now, we're in a maintaining mode and smaller amounts should be sufficient.
On Friday I saw the hygro flutter a few times between 65% and 66% so the 66% reading the last few days does not surprise me. As I've mentioned before the amount of water being added to the conditioned beads is strictly done on the fly. The decision to add water and how much is nothing more than a feeling of when and how much I need to maintain the enviroment. I'm likely at a stage where the unconditioned beads are finding an equalibrium with the conditioned beads and will not be absorbing much humidity from the enviroment as they would be in the beginning stages. I mention this because it influences the amount of water I will add if the rh changes. In the beginning you can get away with adding larger amounts of distilled water since the unconditioned beads are absorbing heavily..... now, we're in a maintaining mode and smaller amounts should be sufficient.
Hope I'm not asking a stupid question, but when your humidity drops, how do you determine how many cc'c of distilled water to add? Also, I have access to deionized water from working in a chem lab, would there be any benefit from using deionized compared to distilled?
edited to add 2nd question
edited to add 2nd question
garrettbuckeye
Member
i always thought deionized was the same as distilled. i'm curious now too. i haven't used any deionized in the cooler, but still curious. ???
Not sure either, that's why I asked. It's probably gonna make me look stoopid now since I work in a lab :whistling: (just a tech though) I know that the filtration unit that we use produces an ultra pure water by going through 2 sets of filters and a 45um filter at the end.
Allofus123
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This was the best I could find doing a quick google: Deionized vs Distilled Water
I can't speak to if the deionized is OK to use but as I read on that link the distilled removes more of the impurities. As readily available as distilled water is, and cheap, its prob not a good idea to use the deionized IMO.
As to knowing how much water to add..... its just a feeling. I've been using beads for quite a few years so I have a general feel for how much water to add. I'm guessing I'm using 1 to 2 lbs of conditioned beads that I'm adding water to. I'm find that approx 3 to 6 cc's usually gives me an rh movement. When the unconditioned beads were first introduced I had to up that amount to approx 6 to 8 cc's as the unconditioned beads were drawing it out as fast as I put it in. Sorta a touchy feely thing really. Also should point out that the amount of beads being used (both conditioned and unconditioned) and the size of the enviroment being used for the conditioned will figure into this. I simply add the water in the morning if I'm below my desired set point and give it 24 hours before making the next decision to add any more.
I can't speak to if the deionized is OK to use but as I read on that link the distilled removes more of the impurities. As readily available as distilled water is, and cheap, its prob not a good idea to use the deionized IMO.
As to knowing how much water to add..... its just a feeling. I've been using beads for quite a few years so I have a general feel for how much water to add. I'm guessing I'm using 1 to 2 lbs of conditioned beads that I'm adding water to. I'm find that approx 3 to 6 cc's usually gives me an rh movement. When the unconditioned beads were first introduced I had to up that amount to approx 6 to 8 cc's as the unconditioned beads were drawing it out as fast as I put it in. Sorta a touchy feely thing really. Also should point out that the amount of beads being used (both conditioned and unconditioned) and the size of the enviroment being used for the conditioned will figure into this. I simply add the water in the morning if I'm below my desired set point and give it 24 hours before making the next decision to add any more.
Allofus123
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The rh has been steady 65/66% since the last time I posted and I have not added any additional water since that time. Today I took a small amount of the beads I'm conditioning and placed them in a small container to measure the rh. Once I have a reading in the morning I will determine what to do next. If the humidity looks good on the small sampling beads I will prob take a hair dryer to them and then rehydrate them. I want to see if they conditioned in the one week time frame. The remaining beads are staying in the humidor and will continue conditioning for the full two weeks.