America's Social Uniqueness

[gawntrail]

Guys,

I ran across this while surfing for some information pertaining to OAK's Ban thread.

(edited in - how lame......I forgot to paste it in)

“…………The colonists in America had Constitutions, which the British lacked. What the Americans lacked, for the most part, was a Class system like that of the British. By the early 1700's, culture in the Americas had already become distinct from that in Britain. Americans were more independent minded, enjoyed a sort of common familiarity that would not have been tolerated in Britain. Britain had its Lords & Ladies, Dukes & Duchesses, Earls, Barons, Commissioners, and myriad honorary and military titles. In America you were an Englishman, or you were not. The American colonists were very proud of their status as Englishmen. The common plea was that an Englishman was an Englishman no matter where he stood in the world. The colonists increasingly took this to mean that they were equal in status and right to any other English subject. British people of the upper Classes viewed this idea with some distaste & were often offended when approached with familiarity by an American. However, this was the frontier, so a certain tolerance was in order. Most Americans thought that British attitudes about Class & title were at best laughable, at worst a corruption of the foulest sort. On the frontier a man was valued for his deeds, not for any sort of social title or family inheritance………” (exerpted from the Autobiography of Thomas Jefferson)


It might not really pertain to cigars, but it smacks of something I can't quite put my finger on.

NOT intended to be political........simply historical insight.

M. Gipson

 

[Gunpowder]

Is it your opinion that the US is moving to a class status. One hears of the reference to class wars (The haves vs. the Have nots) but I think alot of that is politics. In the US you can still be born in poverty and excell to die a wealthy person of status.

 

[gibu]

Yea, it depends in what context your applying this. I can see this having some ramefications just to our own little board here. Some expecting to be in a certain class while others respecting a person for deeds and not titles.

In the actual larger picture of our country I would say this still applies. You could make the case that when a person reaches a certain degree of wealth they sometimes feel supiorior to others despite not backing it up with deeds and actions.

I personally feel though that we are still a nation of equals who are seperated by deeds more then class. We do set celebrities and such apart but have no trouble seeing all men as our equals at heart. We don't shreik back from approching those celebrities or even presidents. Our President is Mr. President. Anybody can work and make something of themselves if only they have the will to do so. Any one of us can be the next Bill Gates. The two guys that started Google are on the front page of my latest Newsweek.

I would say we are still the rebelious colonials we started as.

We won World War 2 and rather then punish the loosers as was done at the end of the first world war we instead spent our treasure on resoring all of Europe through the Marshall plan and even rebuilt Japan. Who else would have rebeled from history the way we did? And thats just one breif example of our continuing rebelion against history and the old ways.

 

[Muley]

... be born in poverty and excell to die a wealthy person of status.

And there's the rub - notice how you placed wealth and status together. Don't worry, you're not alone. Because ultimately, that's the way it works. To deny that fact is to turn a blind eye to the truth.

Interesting quote by TJ there. Funny how he says that class didin't matter in the US but he had plantations full of slaves. African, Asian, "American Indian", Middle Eastern - all slaves in the US. Tells me that class and money were indeed very important to the settlers.

I don't blame today's society for slavery or classism, if you will, because none of us were there. I do believe that states we are doomed to repeat history if we don't know history. Until Americans (and I'm one of the proudest Americans you'll ever meet) can wake up and face the brutal, bloody, evil history of our founding and growth (just like every other nation in the world) we'll be doomed to live under the shadow cast by those evils.

 

[sibernation]

:lookup: Just wondering ??? Jefferson was a man of the land. He also undertood that our gov came from the indians. The tribes of the Iraquis modeld our gov. Just wonder, what would of happend if we followed his chain of thought?

 

[sibernation]

P.s. wealth and status had different meanings to them.

 

[Gunpowder]

Wealth and status are a state of mind. I have little wealth but status as a Executive Director of a nonprofit in a community setting. I get in the papers and people know me and I have earned a level of respect from my actions and dedication to serving the local community.

Not that I sign autographs or anything as there are several different types of "Status". The FOGS have status in our community in much the same way.

Now, Wealth is not a bad thing nor a set value. Status is gained by what people think of you not what "power" you have.

 

[gawntrail]

Interesting path this has taken.........

The context I was looking in was in regards to OAKs Ban. Some of the proponents of 'social' legislation propose such from a perceived postion of 'enlightenment'. They believe they know what is best for us, because they feel we are not able to think for, nor make decision for, ourselves. This was the class system I read into TJs insight.

I guess monetary consideration is a natural link to class differences too.

I see it like this:

“Americans were more independent minded, enjoyed a sort of common familiarity that would not have been tolerated in Britain.”

“Most Americans thought that British attitudes about Class & title were at best laughable, at worst a corruption of the foulest sort. On the frontier a man was valued for his deeds, not for any sort of social title or family inheritance.”

Replacing 'British' with American social elitists kind of puts it into the context I spoke of.

As for me............You can keep the status........It doesn't buy food or pay the bills.

Besides, the only status I can attest to is Married w/ 4 dependents

M. Gipson