Any Electricians in the house?

[Gonz]

If we have any electricians or do-it-yourselfers in the house I have a couple questions about installing a new main breaker box to replace the scary old fuse box. Also, I'll be putting in a 200amp panel instead of the 100amp service that's there already.

Please pm me!



Or for those that think they're in the know:

Besides electrocuting myself, what do I need to be careful of or conscious of while doing this. My assumption is that I can get a new main breaker panel (Square D Homeline 200amp), shut off the power to the house somehow (I've got to take a look still at how to do that) then take apart the old fuse box and put the new panel in place and rewire it and label it. Then of course get it inspected. The home inspector yesterday was under the impression that the main wires coming into the panel right now don't need to be replaced even if I'm hooking up a larger panel, the only thing is that my electric company may want to know so they can replace my meter.

 

[bfreebern]

Andy, while I've wired many aspects of new construction and remodeling, I'd never take on a new breaker box. Just too damn scary for me. I'd suggest hitting up an electrician.

I'd hit up Matt R, off the top of my head.

 

[KeithS]

I think you have to have the meter pulled before you start. That's what cuts the power to the house. You may need to contact the electric co first so that they know what you are doing and don't think you are tampering with the equipment.

Keith

 

[fllbrent]

I have 10 years of experience here as a commercial project manager, and I’m telling you to get a Licensed & Bonded Electrician.

There are a million things that could burn down your house besides electrocuting you. Since you have fuses, I'm going to guess that current house wiring is wrapped in a cloth material, or worse wrapped in paper. The wires inside might have cracking insulation, outlets are not grounded, etc., etc., etc.

The fuse box your replacing, is it 100A? If so, the wires supplying the old fuse box might not be able to handle a 200A load (think of the glowing wire inside of a toaster).

This is only the tip of the iceberg…

Brent

 

[Matt R]

Put in a new panel today....

First, you'll need the meter pulled and the electric company will need to verify that your existing service is big enough for a new 200 amp service. If not, you'll need a new meter base outside, along with new wiring into the new breaker panel. YOU CANNOT REPLACE A PANEL WITHOUT HAVING THE POWER TURNED OFF. After it is confirmed that you do not need any outside work or new wires going into the new panel, you can swap out the fusebox for the new panel. While this is not a huge undertaking in some cases, it becomes pretty involved depending on what you have existing. It may be that all the wires you have now are neat and orderly and you can just replace the box and wire it back up to new breakers instead of fuses. But, I doubt that's the case since you still have fuses. That usually means you got some stuff that has been rigged up to work, but not really up to code. If I was closer I'd come up and you could pay me to do it. LOL!!! If you plan to do it yourself, I'll do what I can to help.

 

[mustangbobo]

I am an electrician, but mostly do industrial work. This is one home improvement I suggest to leave to the pros. Don't burn your house down or electrocute yourself to save $2000.

 

[Matt R]

To add a bit, after re-reading your initial post. The wires coming into your new 200 amp panel will need to be either 3/0 copper or 4/0 aluminum in order to be the right size. I don't know what your power company does in your area, but we have to provide everything on the house, which means all they do is come back and hook up the wires to their side of the meter socket. Their wires are probably large enough, I would guess that yours are not. Some pictures could help to verify some stuff. But, you may just want to call an electrician and at least have them come out and take a look. Most will not charge for just looking at it. Don't tell them ahead of time that you may do it yourself, tell them that as they are looking at what you have and then let them talk you out of it. LOL!

 

[Matt R]

Don't burn your house down or electrocute yourself to save $2000.

Wow... $2000 for a new service!! I wanna do that all week long!!! Replacing a service in a house, shouldn't be more than a days work for one guy. Maybe two days if the current wiring needs a lot of work. Depending on what needs to be replaced, I'd say $1000-$1250... but hard to say without looking at it first. Plus, if you have cobwebs, mice or an ugly wife, I'd have to charge a premium. LOL!!!

 

[enerjay]

What have i learned in 18 years of doing electrical work. NEVER instruct some one to do a job they are not qualified to do.

Even if I am working with an apprentice, (he or she) does not get to do any real electrical work until they have TWO YEARS of experience.

Protect your self and your family.

Besides, a new panel will not change the distribution of electricity in your home.

 

[enerjay]

Don't burn your house down or electrocute yourself to save $2000.

Wow... $2000 for a new service!! I wanna do that all week long!!! Replacing a service in a house, shouldn't be more than a days work for one guy. Maybe two days if the current wiring needs a lot of work. Depending on what needs to be replaced, I'd say $1000-$1250... but hard to say without looking at it first. Plus, if you have cobwebs, mice or an ugly wife, I'd have to charge a premium. LOL!!!

Just a panel and breakers $800

But I agree with Matt, the price goes up as the entertainment goes down.

 

[sack]

Having been an electrician for 37 years, the only thing i can say is to make sure your electrician is bonded. There's nothing worse then having your house go up in smoke and the electrician has no insurance. :0

 

[mustangbobo]

I was quoting contractor rates including material (which also includes service drops, panel, labor). Have you seen the price of copper lately? Region will affect price greatly. Only $800 for a service change in Detroit? We get 12-1500 in Toledo for side work.

 

[Gonz]

Well, I'll certainly have a pro come look at it and see what he thinks would be involved in doing it. I don't mind paying a professional for their time and labor, what irks me is that I've already found the panel/breakers I need at the local Home Depot equivalent (Menard's) and it's going to cost me $143 +tax. But if I hire someone to do it from scratch I can almost guarantee they'll try to charge me double that for materials! I guess I'll test that theory when I get quotes. When it comes to basic home electrical I'm not a newb by any means, however probably still scary to a pro. I've finished and wired 3 basements and run subpanels for a spa at two of our homes so far. So I have a basic understanding of how everything works, but as folks have already mentioned perhaps this is something that might need more knowledge than I have.

 

[grateful1]

A license bonded installer (Master Electrician) in CT runs from $900 to $2000 - depending on how big their ego is!

Mine was $900 and my uncles' is around $1200.

1) If they do it - they may need a local permit.

2) The electric company has to shut down the power - as well as change something in the line (I thinki) in order to get 200 to run to the house(not certain on that part)....but THEY have to shut the power off as they are responsible to the peak of the house(in my case)...and thats were the larger 200 wire comes in(that goes to your panel).

3) If you do the rest - line change from meter, wiring to box, GROUNDGIN RODS, etc....you can(I'd suggest getting someone!)

4) You may(I did) have to get it inspected by the town building inspector....if it's not wired write they tell you...BUT, they won't be responsible is something happens! ..and your insurance may not cover it...hence hiring a master electrician.


Bottom line - get someone! :thumbs: !

Don't forget, if you upgrade some circuits...the wire in the house needs to handle the change!


edit - you can tell them you have the material.....and they'll charge you time - the folks I know (friends) had me get the stuff and then charge labor - for me parts totaled around $350

 

[Matt R]

I would never give someone step by step instructions if they have no experience, but I recall Gonz had some experience in wiring. It's always best to consult an expert, unless you're doing plumbing. All you need to know there is that shit runs downhill and payday is on Friday. :whistling: :sign:

Get some estimates and also mention to your electrician's who are giving these estimates that you would like to provide the material. You'll get some who won't do that and some that will, though they will not take responsibilty for any defects, shortages, etc. I do that sometimes for light fixtures, as most people who are putting new lights in have been to Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc. and know how much they are paying.

Man, it'd be nice to get $1200-$1500 for a service call. Right now, with not much overhead, I am charging $75 (two hours minimum whether I'm there two minutes or two hours) + $35 per hour for extra time. Material is cost + 30%. This is all I am doing now, with no new construction. Price will go up when I officially open the shop and have to pay for a van, storage rental and potential employees. Right now it's just me and insurance and my old vehicle and I'm doing work mostly for people I know. So far, so good as most of the guys in the "big" city, don't really want to come out to the small towns for service calls. When I get going I have some deals set up with a couple of contractors for new home construction and light commercial.

 

[Gonz]

I'll be calling the power company tomorrow to let them know I'm considering the change/upgrade, and to see what they have to do.

The reason I'm doing this, by the way, is I'm worried with 100 amp service that I'm going to dangerously exceed that if I end up running a couple circuits (lighting and outlets) in a new 2 car detached garage plus a spa that requires 60 amps to run both motors and the heater all at once. So overall I may want to add a 100 amp subpanel to the existing panel.

We don't close on this house until the 2nd, at which time I can take a much better look at the existing box. My concern (besides old scary cloth covered wires) is that there won't be enough extra wire within the current box to reach all the new breakers in a new box. I may put this off until the kitchen remodel (first on my list) at which time I'm going to rewire the kitchen anyways.

 

[SMSUCigarguy]

Last year I had my old 100 amp fuse box replaced by an electrician. It took him about two hours to complete and only cost me $300 including materials (a 100 amp Homeline panel and breakers). I could have done what he did, but $300 was well worth the peace of mind that if something bad happened, it wouldn't be my fault. To install the new panel, the electrician will pull (or the utility) the meter to cut power to the fuse box. As for upgrading service, the conductors supplying the house from the utility pole to the weatherhead and the weatherhead down through the meter to the panel must be sized appropriately for 200 amps. That would be a good question for your electric utility. All that being said, I feel much safer with a breaker box. Not only that, but adding branch circuits is as easy as snapping a new breaker into the panel and wiring it up. Good luck and be safe with your project!

 

[N2Advnture]

Put in a new panel today....

First, you'll need the meter pulled and the electric company will need to verify that your existing service is big enough for a new 200 amp service. If not, you'll need a new meter base outside, along with new wiring into the new breaker panel. YOU CANNOT REPLACE A PANEL WITHOUT HAVING THE POWER TURNED OFF. After it is confirmed that you do not need any outside work or new wires going into the new panel, you can swap out the fusebox for the new panel. While this is not a huge undertaking in some cases, it becomes pretty involved depending on what you have existing. It may be that all the wires you have now are neat and orderly and you can just replace the box and wire it back up to new breakers instead of fuses. But, I doubt that's the case since you still have fuses. That usually means you got some stuff that has been rigged up to work, but not really up to code. If I was closer I'd come up and you could pay me to do it. LOL!!! If you plan to do it yourself, I'll do what I can to help.

:thumbs: Spot on bro

BTW - Can't you just add an secondary 100amp "sub" panel instead of replacing the existing entirely?

 

[thatsonofa]

I was quoting contractor rates including material (which also includes service drops, panel, labor). Have you seen the price of copper lately? Region will affect price greatly. Only $800 for a service change in Detroit? We get 12-1500 in Toledo for side work.

We are having a lot of copper theft around here since you can sell it to a scrap yard and there happens to be one on the other side of town.

 

[Jam1173]

I have done plenty of work around my house where i used a pro, but bought my own materials. Don't be afraid to tell your pro that you already have the supplies and you want him to use what you have, and that he should let you know if he needs something you dont have. I agree the markup on some of this stuff can get pretty outrageous.