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Bourbon failures

Gonz

Gonz

Ultra Runner
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
4,842
Location
St. Paul
Here's a little informal poll. I've noticed a trend in the past, and it was reinforced last night at a fine dining establishment again, towards a lack of good bourbon or knowledge thereof.

Question 1: Why is it when my wife asks for a glass of Booker's, they say, "Oh, we don't have that, but we do have Maker's Mark." I'm not a bourbon aficionado, but I do believe they are not even in the same league.

Question 2: This is more of a hypothesis really. Do the servers just have no idea or knowledge of good bourbon? My guess is that they might have another option or two that's more along the lines of a high end bourbon, but perhaps the servers mistake them to be scotch or something else? I just find it hard to believe that some high end 5 star restaurants have such pathetic bourbon selections. For this possible reason, I often make it a point to wander past the bar to take a look at what they have on the shelves instead of asking a waiter/waitress.

In discussion last night, it appears this may be the case with Irish Whisky as well, but I nor my wife ever order that so I'm not sure. Apparently many places think Jameson is the best thing around.
 
Gonz said:
Here's a little informal poll. I've noticed a trend in the past, and it was reinforced last night at a fine dining establishment again, towards a lack of good bourbon or knowledge thereof.

Question 1: Why is it when my wife asks for a glass of Booker's, they say, "Oh, we don't have that, but we do have Maker's Mark." I'm not a bourbon aficionado, but I do believe they are not even in the same league.

Question 2: This is more of a hypothesis really. Do the servers just have no idea or knowledge of good bourbon? My guess is that they might have another option or two that's more along the lines of a high end bourbon, but perhaps the servers mistake them to be scotch or something else? I just find it hard to believe that some high end 5 star restaurants have such pathetic bourbon selections. For this possible reason, I often make it a point to wander past the bar to take a look at what they have on the shelves instead of asking a waiter/waitress.

In discussion last night, it appears this may be the case with Irish Whisky as well, but I nor my wife ever order that so I'm not sure. Apparently many places think Jameson is the best thing around.
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The last time I met a server who knew much was at Churchhill's in downtown Denver. That's a cigar lounge with several HUNDRED bottles of high end hooch. The bar tender there was, for all intensive purposes, an expert in bourbon, scotch, port, cognac - you name it. I tipped him $20 on 3 rounds. Did you get a chance to visit there?
 
Gonz said:
Question 1: Why is it when my wife asks for a glass of Booker's, they say, "Oh, we don't have that, but we do have Maker's Mark." I'm not a bourbon aficionado, but I do believe they are not even in the same league.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's the only bourbon they have in stock. They might not be suggesting it's in the same league, but if she ordered bourbon, and they don't have the one she wanted, maybe the server was suggesting the only alternative they have.
 
There's fine dining in Alex? :sign:


I think it's just one of those things about which a lot of restaurants don't really educate their servers. It's hard enough in many places to find good waitstaff that will provide just the minimum level of service.

As was mentioned above, maybe the server thought since your wife ordered bourbon she'd like what they have or the most popular since they didn't have her first choice.
 
It seems I have a very tough time finding something other than Woodford or Maker's in restaurants when I travel outside of Kentucky. Most of your restaraunts seem to be ignorant about the differences between the mass produced brands and those we enjoy. I have managed to find some in places that have good stock, but you really have to look.
 
I keep plenty of the good stuff at home so I don't have to worry about what the bar has.
 
LilBastage said:
There's fine dining in Alex? :sign:


I think it's just one of those things about which a lot of restaurants don't really educate their servers. It's hard enough in many places to find good waitstaff that will provide just the minimum level of service.

As was mentioned above, maybe the server thought since your wife ordered bourbon she'd like what they have or the most popular since they didn't have her first choice.
Click to expand...

No, not in Alex. But even in the cities this happens. For example last night at Jax in Mpls, a very fine establishment, Maker's was suggested when they didn't have Bookers.

Imagine if you asked for a bottle Veuve Cliquot and they said, "Oh we don't have that, but I can get you a bottle of Cordon Negro."

Is bourbon so unusual or unpopular that restaurants simply don't bother to carry anything higher end? Oh well, I guess that's the way it is!
 
Gonz said:
No, not in Alex. But even in the cities this happens. For example last night at Jax in Mpls, a very fine establishment, Maker's was suggested when they didn't have Bookers.

Imagine if you asked for a bottle Veuve Cliquot and they said, "Oh we don't have that, but I can get you a bottle of Cordon Negro."

Is bourbon so unusual or unpopular that restaurants simply don't bother to carry anything higher end? Oh well, I guess that's the way it is!
Click to expand...

The problem is that in a lot of restaraunts they think Maker's IS high end!
 
Let's not disparage Maker's Mark terribly. It is a good bourbon. Having spent much of my life in Kentucky and since I still have an office there, I agree that when you get away from Kentucky most restaurants do think that bourbon is a generic term meaning any reasonable quality beverage that is brown.

Woodford has claimed a solid market share as the 'better than Maker's' bottle to put on the shelf. If you are looking for good bourbon then you have to look to a place that takes its bar as seriously as it takes its food. In those places you should find knowledgeable servers but if you don't, go to the bar and speak directly to the bar tender. Trust me, they will be happy to see you.
 
I actually work as a server at a pretty decent restaurant. It's not the highest end place but I have work in those as well. Most restaurants are focus in the bottom line these days. Product knowledge is important however this is focused on 3 areas. The first is the food, this tends to be the most important area as there is typically a huge ego that goes with being a executive chef. Wine knowledge is the second thing they work on, as it has a excellent markup and most people want to know that their server is not a complete bumbling idiot when they ask for a bottle of Verite, Harlan, Opus or something as simple as Kendall Jackson. The third area is speciality cocktails. These are fades for the area, the restaurant I work in has stuff I would never drink but in this market it works. Lavender Cosmo's, White Cosmo's Scratch Margaritas, Pomegranate Martini's, Pomegranate, mango, apple and regular mojito's. Now these drinks change based on seasons and trends. We have about 20-25 bourbons( we tend to lump Whiskey's into this category), Bookers, Bakers, Basil Hayden, Blantons, Knob Creek, Makers Mark, Woodfords Reserve, to name a few we carry, we have 1 rye bourbon, a few canadian wiskeys, about 5 or so Irish Whiskeys over 50 scotches, 20-30 vodkas, 10-15 gins, 30-40 cognacs, 5-10 brandys, 10 ports, 10-15 tequila's, about 40 or 50 liqueurs and cordials, a wine list with over 300 btls, 25 beers on tap and this is all I can remember at this time while I am sitting at home sick lol.

When I started out working in restaurants we had vendors come in every 2 weeks teaching the servers about their products so we could be better educated. Since working at this one the only information I have received is on the wine by the glass and the chefs menu as he changes it every few week's or days depending on the items. This leaves a lot of knowledge for the server to learn on their own, a lot of them are just working their way through college and don't have the time.

I personally blame it on management, heck I used to be one so I can!! :D
 
punk_lawyer said:
Let's not disparage Maker's Mark terribly. It is a good bourbon. Having spent much of my life in Kentucky and since I still have an office there, I agree that when you get away from Kentucky most restaurants do think that bourbon is a generic term meaning any reasonable quality beverage that is brown.

Woodford has claimed a solid market share as the 'better than Maker's' bottle to put on the shelf. If you are looking for good bourbon then you have to look to a place that takes its bar as seriously as it takes its food. In those places you should find knowledgeable servers but if you don't, go to the bar and speak directly to the bar tender. Trust me, they will be happy to see you.
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Ummm but I like how Maker's tastes more than I do Woodford. I guess I'll stick to my Rock Hill Farms, I seem to like the sweeter bourbons.
 
Gonz said:
No, not in Alex. But even in the cities this happens. For example last night at Jax in Mpls, a very fine establishment, Maker's was suggested when they didn't have Bookers.

Imagine if you asked for a bottle Veuve Cliquot and they said, "Oh we don't have that, but I can get you a bottle of Cordon Negro."

Is bourbon so unusual or unpopular that restaurants simply don't bother to carry anything higher end? Oh well, I guess that's the way it is!
Click to expand...

I think of Jax as being a good restaurant in the NordEast, not necessarily a very fine establishment. Last time I was there was for my 20 year high school reunion 8 years ago. :D

I like restaurants like The Capital Grill, that will list their single malts and bourbons in a separate menu(at least I think it's separate).
 
Jax actually has a separate Scotch menu! But what puts them over the top is they have a fantastic outdoor patio where we can smoke cigars, therefor it's been the location for the last several world famous CF Beef & Boli dinners. An evening of fine steaks and aged Bolivars.
 
I love Maker's Mark but I'll stick to my favorite bourbon of all......Evan Williams Black Label and Single Barrel.
 
punk_lawyer said:
Let's not disparage Maker's Mark terribly. It is a good bourbon. Having spent much of my life in Kentucky and since I still have an office there, I agree that when you get away from Kentucky most restaurants do think that bourbon is a generic term meaning any reasonable quality beverage that is brown.

Woodford has claimed a solid market share as the 'better than Maker's' bottle to put on the shelf. If you are looking for good bourbon then you have to look to a place that takes its bar as seriously as it takes its food. In those places you should find knowledgeable servers but if you don't, go to the bar and speak directly to the bar tender. Trust me, they will be happy to see you.
Click to expand...


As someone who lives in Kentucky as well, I would agree that Maker's is somewhere in the top half, but more toward the bottom of the top half. Woodford and Maker's are all Marketing.
 
Gonz said:
Jax actually has a separate Scotch menu! But what puts them over the top is they have a fantastic outdoor patio where we can smoke cigars, therefor it's been the location for the last several world famous CF Beef & Boli dinners. An evening of fine steaks and aged Bolivars.
Click to expand...

I did not know that, very cool!
 
Is Maker's Mark the best for the price point? I have to admit, that is the best bourbon I have tried.

I am a Macallan man though, still haven't found that special bourbon to compare with a good scotch.
 
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