moki
el Presidente
Pompous Pugs said:
It's DEFINITELY not US dollars -- nurses make garbage in Cuba.
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Conscious Cigar Smoking
- Thread starter Pompous Pugs
- Start date
It's DEFINITELY not US dollars -- nurses make garbage in Cuba.
JimK
Member
35000 CUCs is more likely.
JK
JK
Fast4Dr
Single Malt Newbie
NYCBOE teachers start at $40k and receive $45/k after they receive their Masters Degree. In order to be a teacher you must have a Masters degree withing 3-5 years after starting or you are fired. I believe that a profession that requires that you have a Masters should pay you significantly more that $45k/yrCalixEros said:
kevpriest
Clueless Noob
Wading in and off topic...
Teachers will be paid the amount that it requires to get a teacher to show up everyday, and not a penny more. If we could somehow evaluate teachers and reward the ones that have good outcomes, and punish the ones that have poor outcomes, we'd have a working system. But most areas are prohibited from doing that, due to union work rules. Seniority is the only thing that can be evaluated.
This skews the market, since competence cannot be evaluated. As a result, less value is placed on the profession overall. If we must pay the bad teachers just as much as we pay the good teachers, we're going to pay only enough to bring the "average" teacher to work everyday. The bad teacher is overpaid and the good teacher is underpaid.
The good teacher will quit. She (or he) can do better elsewhere. The bad teacher will not quit: She (or he) could NOT do better elsewhere. The average quality of the teachers goes down. Since we're only paying enough to get the average teacher to come to work, we can now pay less and still get them all to show up, so that's what we do.
Every year a new supply of good AND bad teachers shows up, and the previous poster was correct, it is a vocation, people are "called" to the field with dreams of doing good things. But once they actually enter the field, it becomes a matter of rewards and satisfaction. Bad teachers receive a higher proportion of pay / competence than good teachers, therefore bad teachers are actually receiving a better deal than good teachers.
Until we can fix the inability to evaluate and reward good teachers, teacher pay will always inadequate for good teachers. It's baked into the marketplace right now.
Teachers will be paid the amount that it requires to get a teacher to show up everyday, and not a penny more. If we could somehow evaluate teachers and reward the ones that have good outcomes, and punish the ones that have poor outcomes, we'd have a working system. But most areas are prohibited from doing that, due to union work rules. Seniority is the only thing that can be evaluated.
This skews the market, since competence cannot be evaluated. As a result, less value is placed on the profession overall. If we must pay the bad teachers just as much as we pay the good teachers, we're going to pay only enough to bring the "average" teacher to work everyday. The bad teacher is overpaid and the good teacher is underpaid.
The good teacher will quit. She (or he) can do better elsewhere. The bad teacher will not quit: She (or he) could NOT do better elsewhere. The average quality of the teachers goes down. Since we're only paying enough to get the average teacher to come to work, we can now pay less and still get them all to show up, so that's what we do.
Every year a new supply of good AND bad teachers shows up, and the previous poster was correct, it is a vocation, people are "called" to the field with dreams of doing good things. But once they actually enter the field, it becomes a matter of rewards and satisfaction. Bad teachers receive a higher proportion of pay / competence than good teachers, therefore bad teachers are actually receiving a better deal than good teachers.
Until we can fix the inability to evaluate and reward good teachers, teacher pay will always inadequate for good teachers. It's baked into the marketplace right now.
The difference in cost of living between New York and South Carolina probablly is pretty high. So comparing the two is like compering oranges and tangerines, same but different.
Kev hit a good point. If there is no way to compare who is good and who is bad, then there is no way to reward one teacher over the other. So now it comes down to qualifications and seniority. I am sure most states require CEU's to be completed by teachers. But perhaps there would be a way to reward techers that go above and beyond the required CEU's. Perhaps paying for the CEU's and a $250 bonus if it relates to the education system. Or perhaps increasing yearly pay by $2500 is a teacher is certified in different fields such as ESL, Special ED, dual Bachelor Degrees, Master's Degree, or Doctorate, etc, etc.
My point being is there is a way to reward teachers outside of a performance based system. But if no one is pushing for it, then nothing will come about.
Emo
Kev hit a good point. If there is no way to compare who is good and who is bad, then there is no way to reward one teacher over the other. So now it comes down to qualifications and seniority. I am sure most states require CEU's to be completed by teachers. But perhaps there would be a way to reward techers that go above and beyond the required CEU's. Perhaps paying for the CEU's and a $250 bonus if it relates to the education system. Or perhaps increasing yearly pay by $2500 is a teacher is certified in different fields such as ESL, Special ED, dual Bachelor Degrees, Master's Degree, or Doctorate, etc, etc.
My point being is there is a way to reward teachers outside of a performance based system. But if no one is pushing for it, then nothing will come about.
Emo
bchem
Member
Fast4Dr said:
One of the guys who graduated from my department several years ago went this route (which is more typical than one might imagine.) Spend the better part of 6 years earning his Ph.D. in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, did a 2.5 year post-doc position, then went on to become a tenure-track faculty member at a small liberal arts college in western Pennsylvania. Their initial offer for him was $38K! He talked them up to about 41K (IIRC.) So basically (for all interested) you can put in 21 years of schooling (completely consuming your 20's) graduate hopefully before you turn 30, all the while making peanuts and not being allowed to have another job, JUST so you can start a job out at about 40K and top off around 60-70 (IF you're lucky!)
Yeah, I'm a little bitter, but to be completely honest...I am doing everything in my power to go down that same path! (I know I'm an idiot,) but like was mentioned before: It's a calling/passion. At the same time unfortunately the ONLY thing stopping me from following that path is the $$...getting married in September and wife wants to stay home with the kids (right now she's the bread winner while I'm in school) and if I am only making $40-50K, things will be mighty tight with only that salary, a wife, and 2 kids!
Enough of my rant now, but this has been in the front of my mind for the last several months so I get a little worked up on this topic.
bfreebern
Yada, Yada, Yada.
Sorry to start this. I just feel education in the US is more important to me then wondering if the cigar rollers are getting their 15 minute breaks every 4 hours. Call me an ass, but teachers don't get compensated for what they do. I know most of them do it b/c they love it, but they should still be rewarded for shaping the minds of kids. The most influential people in my life were some of my teachers from High School and College.
bchem
Member
emodx said:
Sorry for post whoring this thread, but..
Emo, you make a good point. That would be great if there were some sort of reward system. People ARE pushing for it, the problem is that it's all very complicated, and once a teacher is tenured, all bets are off. God forbid we hold somebody accountable for their actions! We wouldn't dare offend anyone for saying they suck at their job. In almost any other profession, you could work for 10 years and be the best at whatever it is that you do. BUT, if you flip your lid one day, get pissed off at the system and start doing a half-assed job, you'd get fired in a heartbeat! I think tenure is good for teachers, BUT I think it shouldn't make you completely immune to review and give you a free pass to become lax at the way you teach.
bfreebern said:
AMEN!
mhortsch
Where am I?
Reading this thread again today... it's a pretty amazing thread jack... 3 posts into the topic!!!
Mrepp
To boldly troll where no Troll has trolled before
bfreebern said:
See I have to disagree, at my high school they always preached this no tolerance, no taunting bs. They also required all of these classes to say how equal everyone is and the plight of different groups ect. Well that’s all good and fine for the younger kids to get them into that positive mindset but this was high school. People are different. There are tones of differences in the world and each and every one of them matters because that’s what makes us unique. Further more if some ones an ass hat, one otta be able to tell them such. Who knows maybe it’ll help. But because of these gross limitations and preaching I never warmed up to too much the slop they where slinging at us. To tell you the truth some of the stuff that there teaching and the younger generations I see I don’t like. There all touchy feely, in touch there emotions, reminds me of hippies. Bah.
Zeebra
Daddy still loves Padrón!
My sister-in-law is a high school teacher. I am 100% behind teachers!
bfreebern
Yada, Yada, Yada.
LOL, to each his own. Sounds to me that that was YOUR choice, not any fault of the teachers. Granted I came from a small school, around 100 in my graduating class. A few of my teachers were also my coaches. I guess it's different a school of 4,000(9-12) vs a school of 400 or so(9-12).
Pompous Pugs
New Member
mhortsch said:
No freaking kidding...
and whoever said that they don't care if cigar rollers make 10cents an hour more(it was squeezed somewhere in between the teaching stuff) because education is essential...
I agree (or perhaps I am just trying to justify my continual pursuit of degrees).
I was not so much concerned about how much money people make...more that cigar smoking hobby does not support oppression.
So yes education is important, but so are people being able to have basic necessities being met first- (you probably remember Maslow's Hiearchy from Psych 101).
Therefore, while I am concerned about teachers being compensated, I have a different concern about all people--not just us--being given basic, pyshical needs.
Rather than re-hijack this thread about that, I will Self-Promote(warning poltical and religious).
PS--when can we get spell check on the Post Topics (Oops)
mhortsch
Where am I?
So what if your a cigar roller with a masters in teaching?
bchem
Member
mhortsch said:
If you could roll all of your own cigars (assuming they are good), the masters in teaching would be worthless. Why would anyone work if you could make your own cigars?!
