Do we manufacture ANTHING in the US now?

[Rob_k]

This is nuts...seems as though we are outsourcing everything from agriculture to zoo keeping. Case and point, American Standard, is not made in America (most is in Mexico), it is assembled in America...here is what got me flared up...sorry for the rant...sucks being in the office by myself.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18841928/

 

[Matt R]

In our second busines we tried to have our new product manufactured in the US. Tooling cost alone was 350% higher. Product cost was double in the states. When you have a target price that cannot be fudged, you have to have it made where you can actually make something off of it. Otherwise, why be in business.

Now, in our manufacturing business, we are about 80-85% US parts and 99% assembled in our buildings. We use as many US products, including US steel and hardware, as we can.

 

[grateful1]

Still Made In USA

 

[tsmckenney]

It's a great rant, nothing to be sorry for. I can't stand buying anything from China. When I lived in Kenya, we had two options for most everything. British or Chinese. The British products, ie faucet, cost 3 or 4 times as much and lasted forever. The Chinese products cost next to nothing and lasted about a week.

 

[sack]

Just read that we are now testing the tooth paste made in China for dangerous chemicals, TOOTH PASTE, why can't we make tooth paste? ???

 

[Ginseng]

I hear ya brother. But to give you and idea of how bad it's become, my advisor recently came back from a trip to Australia. She brought me back what looked like a traditional aboriginal decorative cloth. The packaging was done up to highlight the artists, roots in Australia, etc. When I turned the tag over, it said "Made in China under license."

Now THAT is the height of absurdity. When cultural artifacts (ok, souvenirs) are not even produced in the culture from which they are alleged to represent.

Wilkey

 

[moki]

This is nuts...seems as though we are outsourcing everything from agriculture to zoo keeping. Case and point, American Standard, is not made in America (most is in Mexico), it is assembled in America...here is what got me flared up...sorry for the rant...sucks being in the office by myself.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18841928/

Does it matter? Do we want to be making shoes on a production line, or do we want to be coming up with the ideas and design for the shoes, and having someone else make them?

The USA has changed into a knowledge and service-based economy. This has allowed us to become incredibly prosperous, and is the natural evolution of a modern economy.

We actually lead the world in exports, just not of raw goods.

 

[Rob_k]

This is nuts...seems as though we are outsourcing everything from agriculture to zoo keeping. Case and point, American Standard, is not made in America (most is in Mexico), it is assembled in America...here is what got me flared up...sorry for the rant...sucks being in the office by myself.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18841928/

Does it matter? Do we want to be making shoes on a production line, or do we want to be coming up with the ideas and design for the shoes, and having someone else make them?

The USA has changed into a knowledge and service-based economy. This has allowed us to become incredibly prosperous, and is the natural evolution of a modern economy.

We actually lead the world in exports, just not of raw goods.

Good points as usual Moki. I would use your software company as a prime example of your points.
Rob

 

[Matt R]

Andrew is correct. The problem with the country changing from raw goods to knowledge/service, is that workers have not kept up. If we had the ability to do both, all three actually, we would dominate the world market. But, while it is cheaper to make products overseas, US companies have not lowered prices, so as to pay for the knowledge/service side of things. So, we cannot afford to pay workers lower wages to do jobs that have otehrwise been shipped overseas. Our economy in no way supports a lower tier blue collar worker anymore. Service jobs in the trades, for example, have become the only way for a blue collar type worker to live comfortably in this economy. Banks and credit card companies are not helping either. So many people live outside of the means nowadays, myself included until a year or so ago when I decided to pull myslef up by my bootstraps and TRY to get back to living within my salary. I just wish my wife would do the same. LOL!

 

[Rob_k]

To quote the famous Judge Smayles from Caddyshack..."The world needs ditch diggers too..."

 

[Ginseng]

The USA has changed into a knowledge and service-based economy. This has allowed us to become incredibly prosperous, and is the natural evolution of a modern economy.

That's all well and good and sounds exactly like where we want the country as a whole to be headed, but what about:

1. Young adults for whom college, even community college is not the best route for them to achieve employment and a standard of living that will not be perpetually frustrating and limiting?

2. In service to whom? In what way? By whom? To what standard?

I think it's dangerous to apply the biological concept of "evolution" to the socio-historical trends and forces that drive the development of a nation's economic systems. Natural selection appears to have analogs in aspects of the unfettered free-market (yes, capitalist) economy but a social system must embody a statement of the social good that is lacking in the biological interpretation.

There are those who would argue the origins of the prosperity that some of us enjoy today. And it is by no means clear that a "modern" economy is equivalent to a "good" economy.

Wilkey

PS. I see Matt beat me to the punch.

 

[tsmckenney]

Not to mention that service-based economies do great when economies are doing great. No cash - no topless housekeepers.

By the way Wilkey, your kid is cute as all get up. Nice photo.

 

[Devil Doc]

Better or Better Off
An Easy Essay by Peter Maurin

The world would be better off,
if people tried
to become better.
And people would
become better
if they stopped trying
to be better off.

For when everybody tries
to become better off,
nobody is better off.
But when everybody tries
to become better,
everybody is better off.

Everybody would be rich
if nobody tried
to be richer.
And nobody would be poor
if everybody tried
to be the poorest.

And everybody would be
what he ought to be
if everybody tried to be
what he wants
the other fellow to be.

 

[Matt R]

tsm... you are 100% right. Take for example a good friend who owns a welding shop. When the economy is down he is so busy he has to hire more help. Everyone wants their old stuff fixed. When the economy is good, his business is still prosperous as people are buying new stuff and want it modified. We live in a farm community and economic swings have great affect on the service industires around here.

Now, I know moki's point shoots towards a bigger picture as far as knowledge and service. He's speaking big picture. But, all of this trickles down to the worker, who has not adapted to changes in the way things are done. And, looking at college tuitions placed up against gain from those extra costs, I think you're going to see a lot of people decide against 4 year schooling. We need to have an economy that is on a level playing field between service/knowledge and manufacturing of actual products.

 

[Rob_k]

And what happens when a pair of shoes, manufactured in another country, goes up 300% due to rising fuel / shipping costs? Are we going to design military aircraft / ships / weapons and have them built overseas?
Matt, you bring up a really good point of having a balance of blue collar and white collar industries.
My point of the post was and still is, how much more will we sub out to other countries before it catches up with us? Not everyone is cut out for a college education, or have the means or smarts to attend higher education.
Too many chiefs and not enough squaws makes for a weak tribe.

 

[moki]

There's a price to be paid for everything...

Here's the thing... we're selling our expertise to these producer nations. Who do you think goes into countries like China and Malaysia and other emerging markets to set up factories and production lines?

I agree that some level of production is necessary in any country, but with the global economic labor force, it makes complete sense to modernize our economy to the point where we provide design/expertise rather than hard labor.

It's the risk of becoming a wealthy nation. It is no longer cost effective to produce many types of goods/services.

 

[Hillbilly Steaks]

The company I design parts for still manufactures in the USA

Hayward Pool Products

 

[Matt R]

Who do you think goes into countries like China and Malaysia and other emerging markets to set up factories and production lines?

While they do provide some jobs in the US, many of the intermediates between US companies and China are not US companies. The one we are dealing with at present is owned and operated by a Taipei businessman, who has a small office and warehouse in Chicago.

 

[Ginseng]

There's a price to be paid for everything...

Of course.

But a society must, at the very least, also ask 1) who is paying what price, 2) is it right to ask them to pay this price, and 3) is that price just? Remember, economic systems are just that, mechanisms for managing exchange and distribution. By definition, such a system does not and cannot speak to the question of what is good and right for its citizens. In other words, an economic system cannot serve as a system of values and to conflate the these two things is a dangerous endeavor indeed.

Wilkey

 

[Mrepp]

Oh I’m not going to claim to know much about economics but what I do know is our outsourcing to china may help us avoid environmental issues but it’s also allowing them to have huge revenue and in turn there amassing considerable assets in the U.S. Sooner or later they’ll own us.