Ever at a loss for words...

The Green Monkey

The Green Monkey

Brap-brap
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
CCCA
I smoked a La Riqueza No. 2 earlier today and while I really liked it, I honestly couldn't think of a single word to describe any taste at any point from end to end. It didn't vary much throughout, which makes it even more perplexing given that I had a solid 90 minutes to ponder and mull it over.

Has anyone else ever experienced this vaguely off-putting lack of any identifiable/describable taste?
 
When this happens, I default to describing it in terms of tobacco. No cherries, vanilla, leather, etc. Just how was the tobacco. Sour? Sweet? Rich? Musty? General flavor and aroma terms become important then.

In fact, when I smoke nowadays, I often concentrate on the goodness of the tobacco base rather than trying to tease out discrete non-tobacco flavors. Honestly, if I'm struggling to find something, then either it's not there or I can't detect it. Either way, there's no point to wracking the noggin. Pure tobacco flavor should always be at the heart of a good cigar. Without that, there's no reason to dwell on the esoteric stuff.

Wilkey
 
Ginseng said:
When this happens, I default to describing it in terms of tobacco. No cherries, vanilla, leather, etc. Just how was the tobacco. Sour? Sweet? Rich? Musty? General flavor and aroma terms become important then.

In fact, when I smoke nowadays, I often concentrate on the goodness of the tobacco base rather than trying to tease out discrete non-tobacco flavors. Honestly, if I'm struggling to find something, then either it's not there or I can't detect it. Either way, there's no point to wracking the noggin. Pure tobacco flavor should always be at the heart of a good cigar. Without that, there's no reason to dwell on the esoteric stuff.

Wilkey
Click to expand...

You took the thoughts right out of my noggin'. If I am unable to figure out what a particular flavor is within a reasonable time frame, then I try not to dwell on it too long. I do not want a nagging question in my head that may diminish the overall experience of smoking a cigar. I swear, sometimes the trivial things keep me up at night and that isn't good for an insomniac like myself.

-Mark
 
Ginseng said:
When this happens, I default to describing it in terms of tobacco. No cherries, vanilla, leather, etc. Just how was the tobacco. Sour? Sweet? Rich? Musty? General flavor and aroma terms become important then.

In fact, when I smoke nowadays, I often concentrate on the goodness of the tobacco base rather than trying to tease out discrete non-tobacco flavors. Honestly, if I'm struggling to find something, then either it's not there or I can't detect it. Either way, there's no point to wracking the noggin. Pure tobacco flavor should always be at the heart of a good cigar. Without that, there's no reason to dwell on the esoteric stuff.

Wilkey
Click to expand...


WOW! VERY well said, Wilkey. Couldn't agree more. Just never thought about it that way....until now. Thanks!
 
I've had that experience several times.

I don't have the refined palate of a professional taster. In fact, the only flavors I've ever been able to truly identify in a cigar were honey, toast, pepper and butter and that could be because I was eating breakfast at the time :blush:

I generally describe smokes on a scale from "terrible" to "Wow!" and rate them 1-10 accordingly The heck with all the "slightly nutty with a hint of anaise touched off by a sublte wildflower blush" stuff. Either I like the cigar or I don't. :cool:
 
Excellent points. I am definitely someone who will invest more time in trying to figure something out or remembering some useless bit of arcana than it's really worth.

I appreciate the tweaking of my perspective. The #2 definitely tasted like tobacco, and that's what I'm putting in my journal.
 
Ginseng said:
When this happens, I default to describing it in terms of tobacco. No cherries, vanilla, leather, etc. Just how was the tobacco. Sour? Sweet? Rich? Musty? General flavor and aroma terms become important then.

In fact, when I smoke nowadays, I often concentrate on the goodness of the tobacco base rather than trying to tease out discrete non-tobacco flavors. Honestly, if I'm struggling to find something, then either it's not there or I can't detect it. Either way, there's no point to wracking the noggin. Pure tobacco flavor should always be at the heart of a good cigar. Without that, there's no reason to dwell on the esoteric stuff.

Wilkey
Click to expand...

Bingo! I find it difficult to try to isolate flavors. When I do, I miss out on enjoying the big picture - AND the cigar. For this, I seldom to do reviews.
 
Rodrigo de Jerez said:
You took the thoughts right out of my noggin'. If I am unable to figure out what a particular flavor is within a reasonable time frame, then I try not to dwell on it too long. I do not want a nagging question in my head that may diminish the overall experience of smoking a cigar. I swear, sometimes the trivial things keep me up at night and that isn't good for an insomniac like myself.

-Mark
Click to expand...
I believe you might be talking about distractions from the essential experience of smoking the cigar. When we spend more time studying the parsley than the steak it's decorating, then the experience becomes sidetracked...that is, unless one's a parsley nut. :p

The Green Monkey said:
Excellent points. I am definitely someone who will invest more time in trying to figure something out or remembering some useless bit of arcana than it's really worth.

I appreciate the tweaking of my perspective. The #2 definitely tasted like tobacco, and that's what I'm putting in my journal.
Click to expand...
Well, GM, I would say that if some particular question or feature fascinates you, then by all means indulge yourself. It really only becomes a problem when you find that it interferes with some essential part of the experience for you. One should never let anyone tell you what something should be worth in terms of the pleasure derived. Sale or resale value, sure. But not whether or not what you enjoy is worthwhile or senseless.

Sometimes "tastes like tobacco" is the best we can say about a cigar. In other cases, it might be the highest of praise.

Wilkey
 
I would say that much more often than not, I could not tell you what I was tasting in a cigar. Most of the time, it just pops in my head. I have tried a few time to identify flavors, and I mean a few, in probably 20 years of smoking cigars.

Sometimes, I get a pop of something, like Anise, for one puff of the whole cigar.

Since joining CP, the review thing has entered my cigar life. So I've paid a little more attention to that aspect of cigars. I don't enjoy it. So my few reviews will never be too colorful. While I don't mind trying to review a cigar, it would probably be void of a lot of Flavor descriptors, and be more in the realm of tastes. Sweet, sour, and briney. Perhaps something like an occasional leather, black cherry, Spicey, or Peppery.

The only thing I don't relate too is when someone says a cigar tastes like S#*T. I have never had a cigar that tasted like that, and I hope I never do!
 
MadMonk said:
Most of the time, it just pops in my head.

Sometimes, I get a pop of something, like Anise, for one puff of the whole cigar.
Click to expand...
Those flashes of familiarity are the little serendipities that can turn a good cigar into something almost magical experience. The regions that handle olfaction are embedded in the most primal regions of our brain. So it's no wonder that when something triggers a scent association, the response can be so automatic and so strong. I've often found that a scent that is "on the tip of my nose" becomes more elusive the harder I try to place it. However, when I just stop chasing it and turn off the thinking brain, then sometimes, I make the connection.

MadMonk said:
Since joining CP, the review thing has entered my cigar life. So I've paid a little more attention to that aspect of cigars. I don't enjoy it. So my few reviews will never be too colorful. While I don't mind trying to review a cigar, it would probably be void of a lot of Flavor descriptors, and be more in the realm of tastes. Sweet, sour, and briney. Perhaps something like an occasional leather, black cherry, Spicey, or Peppery.
Click to expand...
Lately I've found my self doing a lot less reviewing and a lot more enjoying. ;)

Wilkey
 
This question immediately reminded me of THIS THREAD. Especially concerning the ability of an individual to describe flavors possibly affecting the overall smoking experience. Plus, it was a cool subject :cool:


This thread has the makings of some great conversation!
 
Usually I try and identify the core flavours of the cigar, and if I get no further than that, so be it. With most smokes I can build upon the core flavours with the overtones/undertones and nuances that most exhibit.

It's not life and death life some of you make out, I actually enjoy identifying what I enjoy in a smoke, much like I do with a good red wine.

However, if flavour profiling is not your bag, then you shouldn't feel the need to examine any part of your experience you don't want to: Just enjoy it.
 
How many of you (besides myself) find you can define a specific flavor or flavors more readily in the pre-light draw than once it is lit?
 
That would not necessarily be me. I find quite different flavors in the prelight draw versus the drawn or trailing smoke. For example, some tubed NC RyJs have a very pronounced blackcurrant aroma. You don't have to work hard to find it. It's powerful, almost perfumed. However, in the drawn smoke, there is nothing at all like this.

Not too surprising that prelight and hot smoke carry different profiles as most compounds smell quite different when they are combusted.

For example, burnt chocolate smells nothing like fresh chocolate.

Wilkey
 
Ginseng said:
That would not necessarily be me. I find quite different flavors in the prelight draw versus the drawn or trailing smoke. For example, some tubed NC RyJs have a very pronounced blackcurrant aroma. You don't have to work hard to find it. It's powerful, almost perfumed. However, in the drawn smoke, there is nothing at all like this.

Not too surprising that prelight and hot smoke carry different profiles as most compounds smell quite different when they are combusted.

For example, burnt chocolate smells nothing like fresh chocolate.

Wilkey
Click to expand...

I believe this is partly due to aromatics not being overly heat stable. The floral smell of beer is caused by the hops added at the end of the boil and not allowed to boil more than 5-10 minutes. The hops that add the acid character are added at the beginning.

On the subject at hand. I have been at a loss many times. I categorize the cigars in general tastes awesome>nice>good>OK>meh>craptacular. So don't expect a good review from me anytime soon.
 
The Green Monkey said:
Has anyone else ever experienced this vaguely off-putting lack of any identifiable/describable taste?
Click to expand...

Well, yes - definitely when I was starting out, and now as well. It was that way with wine, too.

I find the credo tasting guide (link) quite useful for putting out structured observations. It's a gentle guide, but by putting your mind in action to look for a certain family of flavors, you'll start making associations as you taste and smell. Without it it's very easy to get lost; I mean, you see hay, you smell hay. You light a cigar, your brain isn't ready to start sniffing hay, or honey, or cocoa, or manure, or any of the other aromas present in a good cigar.
 
I've experienced this many times. It all comes down to certain people that have a greater sense of taste and smell. What makes it hard for me is that I cannot drink or eat certain things so my references is limited when comparing a cigar experience.

From the few riquezas I've smoked, I found them to be a mix of a padron and cabaiguan guapo in regards to tastes. Good enough to stock up on. :)
 
By no means would I call myself a super-taster, but I do enjoy trying to pick different notes or "reminders" out of whatever I'm eating, drinking, or smoking. It often happens that I can figure out what something reminds me of, but it takes my wife to point out whatever common element it is that I'm picking up on. She's no help when it comes to cigars though.

After further reflection, I suspect that the real driving force behind how vexsome I found this feeling is simply that I'm unaccustomed to being so wholly incapable of describing something--whether it be a taste or anything else. I've been called a lot of things, but short spoken isn't among them.

While the same "just out of reach" annoyance factor was present, I wouldn't call this an example of the tip-of-the-tongue phenomenon so much as just a situation in which either there is no word to describe something, or else I'm completely unaware that there *is* a word for "it" given the fact that I'm unaware of "it" in the first place. Maybe there isn't an "it" in the first place, and how do you describe something that doesn't exist?

The inability to describe it didn't consciously impact my enjoyment of the cigar or anything, and I'm perfectly content using broad terms (good, crummy, try again later, avoid at all costs, etc.) in my journal entries, it's just that this stick seemed incongruous because of how much I liked it compared to how little I could say about it.

*****

Ginseng said:
When we spend more time studying the parsley than the steak it's decorating, then the experience becomes sidetracked...that is, unless one's a parsley nut. :p
Click to expand...

While I haven't conducted any empirical examinations or read any peer-reviewed articles on the topic or anything, I have heard that some male porn stars will eat lots of parsley in order to uh, maximize output, so to speak...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top