Holt's announces Padilla's demise?

[MadMonk]

It's the "whoever is the most obnoxious sells the most cigars" business principle.

Put your competitors down gimmic only works on certain uneducated consumers. It turns me off.

Here is my hair brained speculations/wonderings on this.

Padilla Miami, 1932, and 1948 are far superior smokes (imho) than Old Henry, Connoisseur, or the latest cigar which impressed me so much I can't remember the name after smoking 10 of them. I've smoked plenty of each, and I would never buy the Holt's brands again. I'm sure Holt's is smart enough to know that.

Nothing like having all the big guys making cigars for you, and of course you only want folks buying your wares. I've never felt comfortable with "conquer the market" business.

Remember, Holt's ran a special of Holt's / Pepin blends to prove that Pepin wasnt dropping in quality. All it did for me was reinforce that they are trying to shove crap down my throat. Not to mention the "I'm cool and he's not" and "you're cool if" and "you're not cool if" marketing principles of late.

Based on my experience, I agree with the buzz that Pepin has dropped in quality. Loose rolls, plugged cigars, blends off. I smoke 3 or 4 cigars a day..I get a pretty good sampling pretty quickly compared to those who smoke 3 a week.
Nicaraguan Pepins are my focus. The Miami cigars have all been great. Pepin had to do something to right this. He made a decision that fit his business model, needs, or whatever, but it was his decision, and who knows how much input Fernandez had in these decisions. So I have to respect that, as much as I love Rey Miguel. We do need cigars of the caliber Pepin is capable of. If his recent moves result in an overall better product, that's a good thing.
Based on what I've heard, and experienced, I'm happy that Padilla is taking steps to preserve the quality of his cigars, which he HONORS HIS FATHER with.

But the truth is, only Holt's knows why they chose to be completely obnoxious.

edited for coherency.

 

[Fyodor]

Hey Guys, I have been reluctant to post anything but it seems that many people on both Cigar Family and Cigar Pass are associating this happening to both Pepin and I.

I cannot comment on what happened between Sathya and Ernesto as none of it involves Me or the Garcia family but I will pass on a message from Jaime(Pepin's Son)

Jaime wanted me to relay that his concern is not to get involved with this commentary but only to make more cigars with better quality for you the consumer. Period!

I agree with this. Let's move forward and get back to making this industry stronger not divided.

Pete

It is about more than just making the best cigars for us the consumer, period. That is a very crucial part, in fact the most crucial. However, I would not buy the best cigars in the world for any price if I knew I was supporting unsavory people. I find that attitude a little insulting. Not that I'm knocking Pepin, Jaime or Pete, I still feel I have no reason to, but things like customer service, integrity, and a respectful tone are important to me, sorry if any retailers such as Holt's find that inconvenient.

And If your reputation was the one being dragged through the mud I bet you would be a little less interested in "moving forward and get back to making this industry stronger not divided."
If there is scum in the industry I feel it may be better to stay a bit divided from it. I would rather my cigar vendor didn't sound like a used car salesmen and I don't want to encourage that kind of conduct in any way.

 

[moki]

I'm reposting this from CF, because I'm lazy.

I'm probably stating the obvious here, but... the drama llama must be fed!

1) The idea that Fuente can be held even remotely responsible for what is printed in the catalog is... stretching it, to say the least. Something tells me Carlito doesn't function as a proofreader/editor for Holts catalogs... I mean c'mon, financial interest or not, it's ludicrous to believe Fuente would be that involved in Holt's day to day operations.

2) Bringing Don Pepin into the discussion is just muddying the waters pointlessly. Whether you agree or not with their business decisions, it is again quite a stretch to associate them with something that was printed in a Holts catalog. I'm sure Jamie and Pepin's reaction was "Catalog? What catalog?" Both are honorable men, and whether you think they should keep creating cigars for a particular niche brand until the end of time is not germane to the discussion here. They aren't Holts catalog editors either.

3) The Holts ad was classless and puerile. Full stop, nothing more to say. The classy thing to do would be to print an apology, retraction, and fact correction inset in the next Holts catalog.

4) Any gossip about Padilla not paying bills, etc. is just that: baseless conjecture. It may be true; it may not be true. Few people are in the position to know for sure, and those who do not know for sure should not be speculating about it.

5) Conspiracy theories about person X backstabbing person Y, or about this being part of a premeditated plot, etc. have no merit, because they are again based on conjecture and drama, not fact. Time to break out the tinfoil hats, folks...

6) Business is business, but business is also about relationships. Relationships in business come and go, just as personal relationships do. Just like personal relationships, often one party feels jilted, but the reality is that situations change, business directions change, and I don't think a business need stay "married for life" to a relationship that no longer makes sense.

7) Did I mention that the Holts ad was classless and puerile?

 

[Wurm]

I'm reposting this from CF, because I'm lazy.

I'm probably stating the obvious here, but... the drama llama must be fed!

1) The idea that Fuente can be held even remotely responsible for what is printed in the catalog is... stretching it, to say the least. Something tells me Carlito doesn't function as a proofreader/editor for Holts catalogs... I mean c'mon, financial interest or not, it's ludicrous to believe Fuente would be that involved in Holt's day to day operations.

2) Bringing Don Pepin into the discussion is just muddying the waters pointlessly. Whether you agree or not with their business decisions, it is again quite a stretch to associate them with something that was printed in a Holts catalog. I'm sure Jamie and Pepin's reaction was "Catalog? What catalog?" Both are honorable men, and whether you think they should keep creating cigars for a particular niche brand until the end of time is not germane to the discussion here. They aren't Holts catalog editors either.

3) The Holts ad was classless and puerile. Full stop, nothing more to say. The classy thing to do would be to print an apology, retraction, and fact correction inset in the next Holts catalog.

4) Any gossip about Padilla not paying bills, etc. is just that: baseless conjecture. It may be true; it may not be true. Few people are in the position to know for sure, and those who do not know for sure should not be speculating about it.

5) Conspiracy theories about person X backstabbing person Y, or about this being part of a premeditated plot, etc. have no merit, because they are again based on conjecture and drama, not fact. Time to break out the tinfoil hats, folks...

6) Business is business, but business is also about relationships. Relationships in business come and go, just as personal relationships do. Just like personal relationships, often one party feels jilted, but the reality is that situations change, business directions change, and I don't think a business need stay "married for life" to a relationship that no longer makes sense.

7) Did I mention that the Holts ad was classless and puerile?

Nice Andrew,

I was just about to post about all the rumor-mongering over at CF, after going over there and reading the thread, but you took care of it rather nicely.


Shawn

 

[moki]

One other slightly tangental thought here... the discussion we're having here is not normal.

Normally, if a company does something that you don't like, people will chime in with their opinions, rants, and the like, and the indignant banter will fade into oblivion.

Here we have direct responses from Ernesto Padilla, Pete Johnson, Jamie Garcia (and on CF, Carlito Fuente, Saytha Levin, and Drew Newman)... principals from the companies involved (or thought to be involved/dragged into the discussion).

Whatever your opinion on what has transpired, don't sour them to the direct interaction they are participating in here... because it is not normal to have this type of direct line to the parties involved, and I for one would like to keep it.

 

[Wurm]

One other slightly tangental thought here... the discussion we're having here is not normal.

Normally, if a company does something that you don't like, people will chime in with their opinions, rants, and the like, and the indignant banter will fade into oblivion.

Here we have direct responses from Ernesto Padilla, Pete Johnson, Jamie Garcia (and on CF, Carlito Fuente, Saytha Levin, and Drew Newman)... principals from the companies involved (or thought to be involved/dragged into the discussion).

Whatever your opinion on what has transpired, don't sour them to the direct interaction they are participating in here... because it is not normal to have this type of direct line to the parties involved, and I for one would like to keep it.

I agree, I could only compare this situation to having a hypothetical thread about Microsoft unfairly trashing Apple in an ad and then having Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison posting in it and then having Steve Ballmer come in and apologize for the advertisement and take responsibility for it.

It goes to show that the cigar industry is a very close knit community between the people who make, sell and smoke.

Oh and @ Wade (The Volusianator) your comment regarding CP in the thread over at CF was uncalled for. I like you brother, but the crap you got involved with here was mostly your fault. And your wrong about CP, dead wrong.

 

[tigger]

1) The idea that Fuente can be held even remotely responsible for what is printed in the catalog is... stretching it, to say the least. Something tells me Carlito doesn't function as a proofreader/editor for Holts catalogs... I mean c'mon, financial interest or not, it's ludicrous to believe Fuente would be that involved in Holt's day to day operations.

My opinion throughout all of this is that they aren't responsible for printing it, but once aware of it, that they had a responsibility to disclaim it and call it what it is...pyuraisle...er...pooreyel...er...sucky. :whistling:

 

[MadMonk]

Hey Guys, I have been reluctant to post anything but it seems that many people on both Cigar Family and Cigar Pass are associating this happening to both Pepin and I.

I cannot comment on what happened between Sathya and Ernesto as none of it involves Me or the Garcia family but I will pass on a message from Jaime(Pepin's Son)

Jaime wanted me to relay that his concern is not to get involved with this commentary but only to make more cigars with better quality for you the consumer. Period!

I agree with this. Let's move forward and get back to making this industry stronger not divided.

Pete

Hi Pete,
Well that certainly is the high road. And I do agree that we really need to move forward. All this may very well lead to a better industry.
Tangentially brings me to remember the old Zen Master and the Horse story. In short, What appears to be "bad" turns out good, and what appears to be "good" could turns out to be horrendous. For instance, I had to lay off one of my better employees a few months ago. It was VERY troubling. I trained him, put my whole mind and soul into his well being for 6 years. Then add that his wife is very pregnant, just bought a new car, etc. He got a new job as a supervisor making 10K a year more. So a blessing in disguise?
With that in mind, I'm going to shut up. And see what unfolds.

 

[moki]

1) The idea that Fuente can be held even remotely responsible for what is printed in the catalog is... stretching it, to say the least. Something tells me Carlito doesn't function as a proofreader/editor for Holts catalogs... I mean c'mon, financial interest or not, it's ludicrous to believe Fuente would be that involved in Holt's day to day operations.

My opinion throughout all of this is that they aren't responsible for printing it, but once aware of it, that they had a responsibility to disclaim it and call it what it is...pyuraisle...er...pooreyel...er...sucky. :whistling:

Well, I certainly disagree. As it has nothing to do with them, a public condemnation would be just... Odd.

The Levins are adults, let them handle their own mess. Getting involved in any way would be the worst thing they could do... akin to you butting in to condemn one spouse in a domestic dispute that is none of your business/concern. Even if you're related to them.

 

[tigger]

Well, I certainly disagree. As it has nothing to do with them, a public condemnation would be just... Odd.

The Levins are adults, let them handle their own mess. Getting involved in any way would be the worst thing they could do... akin to you butting in to condemn one spouse in a domestic dispute that is none of your business/concern. Even if you're related to them.

I don't have a significant equity interest in any of the couples I know, so your analogy really doesn't work.

Last I will post about this.

 

[Padilla cigars]

I want to thank everyone for the support. I want to move on to more positive things, in an industry that I love! Here is a video that was made a couple of weeks back. It's just a quick introduction into a tour I gave of Miami to a fellow cigar smoker Dan Lopez of cigarlive. He will be posting the rest of the video in coming weeks.

Link to video:
http://www.cigarlivevideo.com/view_video.p...747bfa2f1b5f87d

I also hope to soon have video of the NEW Padilla Miami factory located in the heart of Miami's Little Havana. Still a lot of build out to be done but hope to be open soon. I would let you know when we are open and want to invite you down to visit.

Again thank you.
Ernesto Padilla

 

[junkman_56]

Thanks Ernesto for adding your input to this discussion.

Don't sweat the small stuff my friend, just keep making the best cigars you can.

 

[moki]

I don't have a significant equity interest in any of the couples I know, so your analogy really doesn't work.

Last I will post about this.

Please, pray tell, what exactly is the Fuente's equity interest in Holts? Do you know? Are you sure they even have one anymore?

You're missing the point, deconstructing the analogy rather than addressing the core issue. That is, a company that may or may not have a minority equity interest in another company cannot reasonably be expected to stand up tall on a soap box and decry the statements made in a catalog just to make you happy.

It's unreasonable. The Levins are the ones who should be taken to task, not any third parties that may or may not have an equity interest.

Using your logic, the bank that holds the mortgage note on their building or business loans/lines of credit has a significant equity interest, and thus should be expected to publicly decry the statements in their newsletter.

Give me a break. There are real issues to be addressed here, this is not one of them.

 

[Sleeper]

IMO, Andrew's comments are on the mark. Earlier in this thread, I started down the same road that he is traversing, and concluded that it wouldn't matter to some, regardless of logic and reason. Unfortunate, I suppose, but people will think and beleive what they want, when they want.

The only thing that matters, and that we all agree upon, was that the catalog prose was unprofessional and completely inappropriate.

 

[Spade]

I'm sure Padilla will be fine, I smoke a '68 last night which as far as I know was not a Pepin blend- and it was excellent. As long as they continue to produce cigars of that quality, I'll happily continue smoking them no matter who is behind the blend.

 

[Ginseng]

The only thing that matters, and that we all agree upon, was that the catalog prose was unprofessional and completely inappropriate.

The sad thing is that the language and tone of the Holt's catalog has taken on an increasingly fantastical tone. It's become almost like reading a flyer for a carnival sideshow. In this respect, I think they've surpassed even the JR Cigars catalogs. In this evolving context, it doesn't seem all that out of place...and maybe that's the bigger problem.

Wilkey

 

[Sleeper]

The only thing that matters, and that we all agree upon, was that the catalog prose was unprofessional and completely inappropriate.

The sad thing is that the language and tone of the Holt's catalog has taken on an increasingly fantastical tone. It's become almost like reading a flyer for a carnival sideshow. In this respect, I think they've surpassed even the JR Cigars catalogs. In this evolving context, it doesn't seem all that out of place...and maybe that's the bigger problem.

Wilkey

Sad, but true!

 

[Fia]

The only thing that matters, and that we all agree upon, was that the catalog prose was unprofessional and completely inappropriate.

The sad thing is that the language and tone of the Holt's catalog has taken on an increasingly fantastical tone. It's become almost like reading a flyer for a carnival sideshow. In this respect, I think they've surpassed even the JR Cigars catalogs. In this evolving context, it doesn't seem all that out of place...and maybe that's the bigger problem.

Wilkey

I have been kind of noticing that too. Makes for good reading when Im on the porcelain throne however! :whistling:

 

[jstrat]

Wow ... this has been a very interesting thread. As a more "casual" member of this forum, I don't post a lot. But, I have learned two valuable things in this discussion:

1) Even though I have ordered quite a bit from Holt's, I will not anymore. The language used in their catalog regarding Padilla was low class and out of line. There is no excuse - someone should be held accountable.

2) Ernesto Padilla, in addition to being a first-class cigar business man, is a gentleman. I have no doubt that his cigars will continue to be top-notch.

As someone who was once a vital part of a corporate machine, I understand the dynamics of the situation between Pepin and Padilla. It is what it is. I wish the best for both of them. They have put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into their product. I look forward to smoking more of their fine cigars.

 

[Ginseng]

The only thing that matters, and that we all agree upon, was that the catalog prose was unprofessional and completely inappropriate.

The sad thing is that the language and tone of the Holt's catalog has taken on an increasingly fantastical tone. It's become almost like reading a flyer for a carnival sideshow. In this respect, I think they've surpassed even the JR Cigars catalogs. In this evolving context, it doesn't seem all that out of place...and maybe that's the bigger problem.

Wilkey

I have been kind of noticing that too. Makes for good reading when Im on the porcelain throne however! :whistling:

LOL! Where do you think I keep my JR and Holt's catalogs and my CigarMagazine?

But seriously, reading this stuff under the right circumstances, in the right mindset, it can be sort of titillating. Gotta admit that. If you can calibrate your mind to filter out the 95 octane horsepucky, the catalog can be accepted for what it is: sensationalist advertising designed to move product by whatever written means necessary.

The line between good taste and poor taste is often diffuse, fuzzy. However, one doesn't have to snuggle right up to it to be effective.

Wilkey