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How Much Does Age Increase Value....If At All?

CigarAl

CigarAl

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2005
Messages
623
I debated whether to post this topic or not, but it has been nagging at me for the past few days. I seaerched the forum for previous discussions about this, but did find any (although my search skills may be lacking).

How much does, or should, age increase the value of a regular production/line of a box of cubans smokes. I am not referring to limited editions, regionals, discontinued or any other special release cigars.

There is a lot of discussion about how aging of various cigars improves the quality of the cigar and that in a lot of cases, some aging of cuban cigars is almost expected before the cigar is really "ready to smoke".

So does age increase the value and if so how much?

The example below is what got me to post this topic.

In the mid 2000s a new cigar was added to a line of existing production cigars that I enjoy and therefor always on the lookout for. That same cigar remains in production and is still readily available at about $250 per box of 25.

Recently two different boxes from the first year of production were posted for sale (not on this site). One was about $500 for the box, the other over $600. The first box sold, I am not sure about the other one.

I know the old saying, anything is worth what someone is willing to pay, but does age increase value that much? In this case, the box only had 6-7 years of age on them.

Does the fact that is from the first year of production really drive the cost up that much?

If said cigar was released in 2005, is it worth that much more than the same box from 2006?

I am interested to hear what people say and thanks for letting me get this off my chest and out for discussion (unfortunately not a discussion/debate I can have with my wife at dinner).

Al
 
Good question Al, I highly doubt this can be answered simply. It will require much discussion and debate. I PERSONALLY don't mark up cigars based on age, the old rule still stands for me. Sell for what you paid for it. I just sold some Cohiba Siglo IVs for what I paid for them 3 years ago, and the box code was from 2007. So 5 year old Cohiba Siglo IV for what I paid, no reason to make a nickle, just trying to help someone else out, not make a profit.

But that is just me personally, I see this all the time on other boards. 5 year Cohiba Robustos asking twice MSRP, and that in my opinion is purely ridiculous. But what the hell do I know, it's just my $0.02 on the matter.

Great question though, I'd like to hear others thoughts!
 
From a purely economic standpoint, I'd say that age certainly adds value. The "first run" edition of anything adds a collector value, too.

How much is the grey area. You have to start with something of a notable value to begin with. An "aged" box of Curly Head or Moontrance certainly isn't increasing in value. I seem to remember discussions like this in the past defining "aged" as over five years and then the value only increasing 10% or so. On the market (not here), it all goes back to what you said: "anything is worth what someone is willing to pay".
 
Well I'm no expert but I could add to price as a desirability factor. I would not pay twice the price for an aged smoke just because it's aged... I rather go down and get some at the real price and then age them myself (if they do survive the first year, and right now they are smoking good anyways so...)
 
Don't forget about the tobacco. Some times blends change a little (or a lot) over time. There are several factors that come into play and I'm not sure about the particular cigar, but this could be a reason for the inflated price. I'm not saying I agree though.  My cigars are not for investment purposes, they are purely for enjoyment.:D
 
Based on the 2005 release date and assessed value, I would guess you're talking about the PSP2. That particular cigar, IMO, is one of the great releases out of Cuba; however, be wary of what people consider first release. Not all 2005 box codes are created equal. From personal experience, the boxes I have from the 2nd half of 2005 are no where as good as my ENE05 box. As a matter of fact, my JUN and AGO boxes were about the same as my 06 boxes. Unless, they are ENE05 boxes, I personally would not place $200-$300 premium on them.

Keep in mind that value is different for everyone. There are some aged cigars out there that are certainly worth a large premium. For me, '04 Siglo VIs come to mind. I certainly would not part with any of mine and if I trusted the source, I'd pay the extra 200-300 for them.

That brings out another factor for the cigar. Source. There are very few private sources I'd buy aged cigars from. Way too easy to misrepresent the true age of vintage cigars. Unless you have extensive experience with a particular, you'd be hard put to recognize the difference between a cigar from 2003 and 2004. Not to mention, the inconsistencies from box to box coming from different factories. Unless the cigars no longer exist (i.e. Party Lonsdale), I generally will not buy vintage. I'd rather age them myself.
 
The best answer, I believe, is "it depends".....

A year with an exemplary blend, that is known to age well will no doubt increase in value as time goes on. Any limited supply issues will magnify that increase in value.

OTOH, a year with a so-so blend that is known to age poorly if at all, may not increase much at all.

....."it depends".....
 
Age absolutely adds value and frankly anyone that says otherwise probably either doesn't age cigars or is looking to snag absurd deals on aged cigars. I sell cigars very, very rarely so I rarely have to deal with this issue from a seller side. That being said, to disregard both the age and release year of a given cigar is just silly. For example, you may be able to get a current production box of RASS for $150 but they may be virtually unsmokeable for 2 years. Try finding a box of 2005 RASS these days, even in the 'vintage' market and you will probably triple your price. Look at a box of SLR A for another example. A 2012 box may cost you say, $200 a box. However, for those around a bit you know that the market was entirely flooded with 2000/2001 stock for less than $100 a box because of the concerns with the year, so would it be reasonable to price those at the same point or higher than a current box? How about a box of 97 SLR A, which regularly sell for closer to $600 a box privately and in auctions? It is all very tricky and I honestly think that when in doubt the best practice is to ask around to some people familiar with the current fair market value.

Also as a caveat, while this certainly extends to some NC cigars as well I would leave them entirely out of this discussion because the collectors market for them is entirely different and the flooding of the market with boutique brands and one hit wonders (vs. a master collection of marcas all managed by HSA) mandates a different valuation logic.
 
wkoti said:
Good question Al, I highly doubt this can be answered simply. It will require much discussion and debate. I PERSONALLY don't mark up cigars based on age, the old rule still stands for me. Sell for what you paid for it. I just sold some Cohiba Siglo IVs for what I paid for them 3 years ago, and the box code was from 2007. So 5 year old Cohiba Siglo IV for what I paid, no reason to make a nickle, just trying to help someone else out, not make a profit.

But that is just me personally, I see this all the time on other boards. 5 year Cohiba Robustos asking twice MSRP, and that in my opinion is purely ridiculous. But what the hell do I know, it's just my $0.02 on the matter.

Great question though, I'd like to hear others thoughts!
Click to expand...
+1 on this most of the time... although, I dont think I would be looking to sell aged CC's LOL
 
It depends on the cigar. The vintage, the factory, the rarity and the reputation of the cigar all matter..

I wouldn't pay much "extra" for an old box of LGC Tainos, but I would for a CoRo for example because the LGC is too mild for me and the CoRos are very nice. A box from 99-2000 is worth less to me than a box from 2003 because the older cigars had construction issues. A 15 year old Monte number 2 is not worth as much of a premium to me as a box of Punch Black Princes because the Black Prince is rare.
 
If nothing else, doesn't the theory of supply and demand come into play. If its old there aren't many right?
 
I've never sold cigars- nor will I, but I do buy them, so no, age and rarity should have no impact on price.
 
CBoukal said:
If its old there aren't many right?
Click to expand...

A certain vendor still has a half million boxes of 1998 Fundies, so no. ;)

How many Wolters edition Gold Medals are out there compared to Monte #2's?
 
I believe this gentleman was speaking of a standard nothing special, still inproduction CC. Most who smoke CC understand that they generally need to be aged. With the scenario the OP was speaking of, IMHO it does not make them more valuable, it makes them smokeable.

Lefty
 
I don't buy aged or vintage cigars, but I have no problem if they charge higher prices. Whether it's a vendor or an individual, if someone tied up their money for several years to properly store cigars (or took the time to aquire vintage stock), I can understand the premimum.
 
Your repsonses are exactly why I posted this topic. To illicit many and varied answers, expecially from our more experienced FOGs

Doesnt seem like there is clear cut answer and I did not expect one.

But concensus seems to be that aging does increase the value to some extent, but as to how much varies and depends on the cigar itself.

I was trying to eliminate factors like source and limited editions/collector value for the purposes of this discussion. I also wanted to make the point that this was a regular production cigar that had not changed factories and therefor the blend not changing much.

I think Stray makes some excellent points (as well as being a mind reader). I think we have all seen where original release, and by this I mean the actual first release or batch of cigars, are slightly different than the remaining batches/releases once a cigar is on production. This holds true for both CC and NC cigars.

Thanks for the good read.....
 
insight said:
Age absolutely adds value and frankly anyone that says otherwise probably either doesn't age cigars or is looking to snag absurd deals on aged cigars. I sell cigars very, very rarely so I rarely have to deal with this issue from a seller side. That being said, to disregard both the age and release year of a given cigar is just silly. For example, you may be able to get a current production box of RASS for $150 but they may be virtually unsmokeable for 2 years. Try finding a box of 2005 RASS these days, even in the 'vintage' market and you will probably triple your price. Look at a box of SLR A for another example. A 2012 box may cost you say, $200 a box. However, for those around a bit you know that the market was entirely flooded with 2000/2001 stock for less than $100 a box because of the concerns with the year, so would it be reasonable to price those at the same point or higher than a current box? How about a box of 97 SLR A, which regularly sell for closer to $600 a box privately and in auctions? It is all very tricky and I honestly think that when in doubt the best practice is to ask around to some people familiar with the current fair market value.

Also as a caveat, while this certainly extends to some NC cigars as well I would leave them entirely out of this discussion because the collectors market for them is entirely different and the flooding of the market with boutique brands and one hit wonders (vs. a master collection of marcas all managed by HSA) mandates a different valuation logic.
Click to expand...


This is by far, the best answer you'll get to your question.
 
Big head Ted, what's going on hermano? And my best answer to this question was already stated above... it depends.

Would I pay a premium for some OR '03 Siglo VIs with the original bands? Absolutely. Would I pay a premium for original release Monte Petite Edmundos? Not really.

Personally as a rule of thumb I pay a very nice premium for anything pre-'90s, large premium for pre-'98, some premium for '02-'06, and regular price for anything newer.
 
I personally think that anything EL with age on it will alway command a premium price over retail. I'll guarantee you that Cohiba 1966 EL's will be around 900.00 a box in a few years. Would I pay that much for a box of cigars, no. I age my own because no b&m or vendor will do it for me for free.
 
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