I'm losing my mind - Temp issue in tower humidor

[danarf1]

OK so I have the tower humidor from cheaphumidors.com. http://www.cheaphumidors.com/Merchant2/mer...Product_Count=5

I live in South Florida and know that temp is an issue. I have installed 2 thermoelectric coolers into this unit. I pulled them from a Coleman cooler device and they produce a lot of cold air over the cold side fins. I have sealed up where they come through the back of the humidor and no matter what the temp inside the unit always reads the same as outside in the room or just a couple degrees cooler.

I think my thermometer may be screwed up. I will buy a couple more to see. I am freaking because my humidor goes from 77 degrees in the day to 74 at night. The house never gets hotter then 80 in the day and 75 at night.

I was planning on adding a third unit this week but I would have thought I would see some cooling from the two units I have installed.

I have lots of fans going in there as well. There are the two fans for the TE devices, two extra fans that come with the Oasis II XL device, and the two fans inside the Oasis II XL unit. So I know I have tons of air flow.

I wonder if the thin backing on the humidor is letting the heat from the back side of the thermoelectric devices get back in? But I don't know how that would be because the fans inside push air against the back and against the cooling fins of the TE device.

I have felt around and there is not any cold air noticeably leaking from the door seal or anywhere else. The glass on the door is really really cold too.

I'm going insane with this and really don’t want to toss out the new humidor I have like 900$ into. I know I can get a venotemp wine cooler but my cabinet humidor looks so great in my office with my nice furn in there.

Any ideas? I hope it’s just a busted temp gage. I am using a new HygroSet Digital Hygrometer with temp and humidity http://www.cheaphumidors.com/Merchant2/mer...Product_Count=0

I guess if it’s not the temp gauge Ill add a third TE unit and possibly a fourth. Then I could put some hard foam against the back of the humidor where the wood is the thinnest.

If that all doesn’t work I may just sell all my cigars and the humidor and pull my hair out (just kidding). I have looked at the expensive temp controlled units and except for probably being better insulated they use the same TE units I am using. How can they work and mine doesn’t?

 

[bimmer635csi]

It is a little difficult to tell exactly what your set-up is like. So please keep that in mind as I throw out a few ideas.

1) Add a fan to the hot side to force the hot air away from the humidor

2) Get an old fashioned thermometer and see how it compares to the temperature sensor you have.

3) Try to separate the hot side from the humidor with some insulated mounts

4) Move the humidor to the north side of the house or to an area that is shaded most of the day

5) Store your humidor in my basement

The basic idea I've learned over the years is try the simple stuff first. It is cheaper that way. Maybe not the fastest way, but usually the cheapest. You could get more complex with those infrared temperature guns, fancy insulation, or more cooling units. But if your gut tells you something else is not correct, you might want to try to chase that down first.

Hope that helps.

 

[danarf1]

It is a little difficult to tell exactly what your set-up is like. So please keep that in mind as I throw out a few ideas.

1) Add a fan to the hot side to force the hot air away from the humidor

2) Get an old fashioned thermometer and see how it compares to the temperature sensor you have.

3) Try to separate the hot side from the humidor with some insulated mounts

4) Move the humidor to the north side of the house or to an area that is shaded most of the day

5) Store your humidor in my basement

The basic idea I've learned over the years is try the simple stuff first. It is cheaper that way. Maybe not the fastest way, but usually the cheapest. You could get more complex with those infrared temperature guns, fancy insulation, or more cooling units. But if your gut tells you something else is not correct, you might want to try to chase that down first.

Hope that helps.

1.) I have fans on the back side fins of both TE devices already and they are moving a lot of hot air away.

These are the coolers I am taking my TE devices out of Coleman PowerChill 40-Quart Thermoelectric Cooler with Power Supply http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4810828

2.) that is my next step. With any luck its just a bad temp sensor. God i hope so because the wife is so pissed that every weekend I am working on this thing!

3.) the hot side is separated with a rubber piece between the cold side and the hot side already. The hot side never touches the back of the humidor.

4.) No direct sun ever gets on the humidor so its not that

5.) I may take you up on that at the rate I am going. In the meantime I have frozen all my cigars to avoid a beetle infestation because I know my humidor is way too hot if in fact the temp gauge is accurate

Thanks for the suggestions and please keep them coming. I have to get this solved. One thing that scares the hell out of me is that the $4,000 temp controlled units they sell say they have insulation like a fridge does in them and they seem to be using 3 to 4 TE cooling devices in them. Also they say they will only get 20 degrees below ambient temp. That’s bad because with insulation and 3-4 TE devices they only will ever get to 60 degrees if its 80 in the house.

I don’t think I will ever get below 70 without insulation even with 3-4 TE devices then 

 

[danarf1]

Well my fears have been confirmed. I stuck a second temp gauge (and I know it’s accurate) in the humidor and the temp is what the first one says. The humidor (with 2 TE devices in it) is at 76 degrees on the bottom portion and 77 on the top

I am now going to puts some insulation on the back of the humidor, install a third and probably a 4th TE device and use silicone sealer on the seams of the back of the humidor.

With 4 TE devices and insulation on the back it has to cool it some I hope. If all this does not work I am going to throw in the towel and sell the humidor and buy three Vinotemp wine coolers. It won’t look as nice but it will keep my sticks cool and keep a beetle infestation from destroying my collection. Man this sucks!!

 

[bimmer635csi]

I've been thinking about this some more.

I was wondering if the chips are cool on the inside & hot on the outside. If the chips aren't cool, then it could be that the chips are broken or the sensor/controller is not working correctly or there might just be a loose wire somewhere.

Also, a few people on the cooler's website you reference comment about the unit stopping. So it doesn't seem so far fetched that this might have gone kaput.

I'll keep scratching my head to help on this. I'm really interested because I've been considering this same type of cooling for my humidors so I don't have to keep them in the basement in the summer.

 

[jfields]

I'm curious to see what Bob has to say.

 

[Bob Staebell]

I would guess you have two problems with the set up. One is not enough cooling capacity & the other is no insulation. When I first tested designs for temp controlled humidors I found that it takes 6-8 times the cooling energy (BTU's) to get the same temperaure drop in a cabinet with no insulation vs one that had at least a minimim of 1" of insulation on all surfaces including the door. Wood by itself doesn't have much more "R" value than glass.

A cabinet the size of the tower probably needs at least 160 watts of cooling capacity & 1" of insulation on everything but the door to get a 10-12 degree temperature drop. It's doubtful that insulating the back alone will solve your issue.

Here is a link for caluclating cooling requirements: www.thermoelectric.com

Take their sizing calculator with a grain of salt & double whatever it tells you. The peltiers in coleman coolers are generally not high output as a cooler by definition is well insulated and doesn't require a lot of BTU's to get the desired result.

cheers,
Bob Staebell

 

[danarf1]

Thanks Bob and the other posters here.

For the record all the TE units are working perfectly. The cold side is really cold and the hot side is really hot.

I actually rewired them so the slightly larger side now cools and the opposite of the reverse side.

So here is what I have done so far. I went to home depot and got some insulation. I now have 1 inch of AC duct insulation on the entire back of the humidor (It looks like a space suit )

I also sealed all the seams in the back. The back piece they use is really flimsy and just high grade pressboard. I also now have 3 TE units in the humidor.

I am most likely going to add a 4th and up to 5 TE devices. If that wont cut it then ill just deal with it. I am about $1100 in for the humidor and all the TE devices. If I can get this working and hold 70 degrees for less then $1500 then Ill be happy because a temp controlled one costs up past $5000.

My neighbor and I have talked and we prob will build two custom insulated cabinet ones and those will cost us about $2000 total in parts for each one. Then I can sell mine for say $600 and be out about the same amount of money.

I have to say I have become an expert in TE devices from all this

I know there is this one guy (sorry I cant remb who he is, its not you Bob is it) who built his own humidor and used two TE devices and he did not use refrigerator insulation just the solid wood) and I don’t know if he is getting the cooling he wants.

My wife has been really cool and helped me so kudos to her.

I’m gonna let it run for a while and will update here on where I am with the temp. As much as a pain in the ass this has been its been one hell of a challenge and I have learned a lot. I am getting really good at soldering and wiring TE units. Also cutting holes in the back of the humidor.

You can see a bunch of PICS of what my set up looks like here http://www.flickr.com/photos/23561842@N02/

 

[tone-ny]

I added this comment previously, but hope it helps. You can add ice packs wrapped in towels to minimize the moisture to help cool the cabinet down. Add the ice packs in the morning and remove in the evening. Put the ice packs in the freezer over night and repeat in the morning. Short term fix until you build your new humidor.

Reminder to leave a space between the wall and humidor to help with circulation. This is true especially if the wall is an outside wall and not an interior one.

Good luck with your project.

 

[souldog]

Now I have a tower and have been working to install TE devices to cool it. My wife saw me walking around the house tonight and asked me what I was doing. My answer to her was "wondering where I could build a walk in humidor"

She told me she would leave. Like a dumbass I said "cool then I could use your study for the walk in" she got a kick out of that.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Still makes me laugh!

I saw your pics, nice NICE humi! I'm sorry this thing is giving you so many problems, but it's sounding like you're heading on the right track towards getting it all fixed! Good luck!!

 

[Mtmouse]

I know there is this one guy (sorry I cant remb who he is, its not you Bob is it) who built his own humidor and used two TE devices and he did not use refrigerator insulation just the solid wood) and I don’t know if he is getting the cooling he wants.

You mean this guy?

TE Humidor

 

[danarf1]

I know there is this one guy (sorry I cant remb who he is, its not you Bob is it) who built his own humidor and used two TE devices and he did not use refrigerator insulation just the solid wood) and I don’t know if he is getting the cooling he wants.

You mean this guy?

TE Humidor

Hes the one. I would like to know how his unit is cooling with just 2 TE devices and no insulation.

 

[danarf1]

OK here is an update. The three TE units are running and the humidor now is holding at about 5 degrees below room temp. so now its 80 in the house and 74-75 in the humidor.

I think I may give up on this damn thing and work on a new cabinet. I know the TE units I have in there are not the most powerful, I am worried that the coils are not getting cold enough. If they only get to 65 degrees then its never going to get below 73 in the humidor no matter how many TE's I install. Would you all recomend that I put more TE's in?

How the %&$# does anyone in Florida keep cigars without having to stick them in an ugly converted wine fridge? My wife said just get a vino temp for all your ISOM's and premiums and use the cabnet for the others. The issue is I haven’t been buying anything except for high end cigars and ISOM's so I would have this big ass humidor holding like 100 cigars. That’s kind of a waste if you ask me.

So what can i do. If I freeze all my sticks will the be ok at 74 degrees? I am worried about beetles.

And please don’t be yet another person who suggests a wine fridge. I get I can use one of them but I think we all know what I am trying to accomplish here. Come on Florida people tell me how you do it without running the AC flat out all year.

 

[danarf1]

I added this comment previously, but hope it helps. You can add ice packs wrapped in towels to minimize the moisture to help cool the cabinet down. Add the ice packs in the morning and remove in the evening. Put the ice packs in the freezer over night and repeat in the morning. Short term fix until you build your new humidor.

Reminder to leave a space between the wall and humidor to help with circulation. This is true especially if the wall is an outside wall and not an interior one.

Good luck with your project.

Not really an option and ice packs wont help cool it, too much volume.

 

[danarf1]

What If I bought one of those portable freestanding AC units and ported it into the humidor with a sensor for it to turn off when the temp inside got to say 67? I could use a one way valve that only lets AC air in and no air out when its not running. Would that screw up my sticks? I know its overkill but what the hell. I know walk ins use these types of AC's the only thing I see happening is my Oasis II would run a little harder right?

 

[bmd34202]

Come on Florida people tell me how you do it without running the AC flat out all year.

We don't. I run the air at 75 all year. I tried a homemade thermoelectric cooler addition to my tower humidor and it just wouldn't bring the temp down any significant amount. I started playing around and added 1" styro insulation just at the top bit and the temp would start coming down some, but I didn't want a friggin eyesore so I basically gave up and unplugged it.

I'm fortunate enough to have been able to order an Avallo cooled unit and look forward to it's arrival.

Sorry I couldn't be any help, but I've been down the road you are going and basically called it a day at the end.

-B

 

[interscape]

I think you should pursue larger Peltiers. If you go to evilbay and search for 545 Watt Thermoelectric you will find some pretty cheap. I could not find specs on the Coleman unit but I bet they are pretty meager as they are intended to operate in ideal conditions (in a cooler for cripes sake!) I built a test box/humi from a triple thick cardboard box with 2 x 1.5" square peltiers and was able to cool the box down 16 degrees room temp. I used a 450 watt computer power supply for the 12 volts.

 

[danarf1]

Come on Florida people tell me how you do it without running the AC flat out all year.

We don't. I run the air at 75 all year. I tried a homemade thermoelectric cooler addition to my tower humidor and it just wouldn't bring the temp down any significant amount. I started playing around and added 1" styro insulation just at the top bit and the temp would start coming down some, but I didn't want a friggin eyesore so I basically gave up and unplugged it.

I'm fortunate enough to have been able to order an Avallo cooled unit and look forward to it's arrival.

Sorry I couldn't be any help, but I've been down the road you are going and basically called it a day at the end.

-B

LOL you and me are one in the same. I am starting to self rationalize dropping 6k on one of them myself. LOL. I insulated my humi on the back but not on the top. I know the wood on the top is thin too and may add some from the inside where that hole in the top is. I don’t think you will be able to see it up there.

Now this is like a power struggle and I think the temp is winning... hahahah At least it gives me something to do when I am sitting at home instead of watching TV

 

[danarf1]

I think you should pursue larger Peltiers. If you go to evilbay and search for 545 Watt Thermoelectric you will find some pretty cheap. I could not find specs on the Coleman unit but I bet they are pretty meager as they are intended to operate in ideal conditions (in a cooler for cripes sake!) I built a test box/humi from a triple thick cardboard box with 2 x 1.5" square peltiers and was able to cool the box down 16 degrees room temp. I used a 450 watt computer power supply for the 12 volts.

OK so what do I do for the heat syncs (spelling)? Can I use the same ones from the Coleman units if I take them apart or do I need to buy them somewhere else. I already have good fans I can use and I am now a pro at the soldering gun.

Thanks!

 

[souldog]

Here you go man, use this on your tower humi, it'll solve it all:

Good lord, it's gettin' worse before it's getting better!!! :angry: Well, I'm invested into this now, I want to see what happens....!!!