In Vitolas Veritas?

[Krautle87]

"Eat less, but eat better. Smoke less, but smoke better."

Friggin' newbies! Smoke more, post less!

Wow, you're calling Zino Davidoff a n00b? :0

Zino will pwn you. In a tasteful manner.

:sign:

 

[Ginseng]

Zino will pwn you. In a tasteful manner.
:sign:

I respect a man who can kick your ass with class.

Wilkey

 

[tigger]

This has turned into a fun thread!

I'll have to peruse it at my leisure when I can read the posts more carefully, as I won't be able to give it the time it needs this evening...

 

[tigger]

Writing this made my brain hurt, so I'll view and reply to more of the thread at a later time.

Wilkey-

If a $12 bottle has the same utility as a $120 or $1,200 bottle, then what makes the latter possible, desired, and perhaps even generally considered superior?"

If the humble, freshly rolled, freshly smoked cohiba of the Mesoamerican and Caribbean peoples are the authentic roots of the modern day cigar, then how authentic is a $27 limited release?

Now transpose the questions of utility and authenticity across the two examples.

In my mind, neither wine nor cigars have, on their faces, any particular utility at the basest level. Water is, I think, a better tool for hydration than wine. As a form of sustenance, grape juice, with most of its sugars still intact, seems superior. And tobacco has no use in providing sustenance, shelter, or reproduction (the post-boink Marlboro is a modern invention, and not a neccessity ).

If you view aids to pleasure and relaxation as utilitarian, then the increased level of pleasure and relaxation a finer cigar or glass of wine brings leads me to believe a twelve dollar bottle or 2 dollar cigar doesn't have the same utility as its more expensive counterpart, provided that the more expensive choice brings more pleasure and relaxation. This is not always, but often, the case.

Regarding authenticity, I ask the following:

The science of mathematics likely started using fingers or pebbles as tools. How authentic is a Cray Supercomputer?

Man likely first fought with his fists. How authentic was the horror that fell from the belly of the Enola Gay?

 

[tigger]

I'd love to have this conversation over a nice bottle of Pinot and a fine cigar. Or perhaps a crude farmy and a 6.99 bottle from the package store.

I'll pass on the grape, as I'm much less lovable when I'm in my cups. But I sure would like to share a fine dog rocket with you fellas and talk sometime.

Now, my ex-wife believed that such pleasures, if expensive, were ON THEIR FACE immoral, as that money could go towards someone else's neccesity, and all one would lose is a luxury.

I hate redheaded hippies.

I hope, on balance, that I do ok with this. I'm involved in my community (and beyond it in a variety of ways). Were I not, I think I would feel some guilt over turning dollars to ashes.

David - Thanks for the offer of your notes, but as a rule of thumb, I try not to make wine look too attractive.

I wonder if I can buy Napa Valley puts somewhere? I have a feeling it will be a tastefully burnt out wasteland when Josh and David and their womenfolk are through with it. :laugh:

LOL at Gary!

The price difference is a measurable increment for the expected enjoyment difference. It all fits into a standard bell curve if you track it long enough

Smoke more. Plot less.
Makes sense to me.

 

[tigger]

As to what Ken wrote:

I can ask this regarding the $27 price of a cigar being outrageous, is a 4$-5$ cup of Starbucks outrageous? Is paying $1.50 for a bottle of spring water expensive (which is more expensive than gas). It is what the market will bear.

With water, you're paying for convenience, and perhaps purity to some degree. I've felt a little silly from time to time paying for bottled water when there's so much water surrounding us. But when it comes down to it, the convenience and lack of chlorine taste are worth a buck fifty to me if I'm not drinking water from a well.

Starbucks is an interesting case, because of the subjectivity inherent in discussing their product. Very few people are going to question the quality of a bottle of Lafite or a genuine Cohiba, but in many circles, the coffee Starbucks purveys is scoffed at (the nickname Charbucks says it all) as overroasted and burnt. Personally, I don't care for most of what they brew, so 4-5 clams is kind of outrageous to me.

Tell ya what fellas, pick the place, I will provide the Thompsons and Thunderbird (vintage August 2006) wine! laugh.gif

I pick Hell. On the next day it's 20 degrees. Fahrenheit.

If yer ever near Hartford, CT, we could all get together at JimD's, converse, and not smoke Thompsons though.

 

[grateful1]

Tigger...who are you talking too? ???

 

[tigger]

LOL! The voices in my head! :laugh:

Responding to posts from earlier in the thread, a little at a time Gary. Last comment was to dbperea.

 

[grateful1]

LOL! The voices in my head! :laugh:

Responding to posts from earlier in the thread, a little at a time Gary. Last comment was to dbperea.

I'll buy the first answer! :whistling:

 

[tigger]

LOL! I just caught that Gary.

Guess I've been pretty theoretical of late. I can see my Doctoral Thesis now -

"An Argument For Enforced Birth Control and Euthanasia from a Malthusian Perspective : Increased Threats to Tobacco Farming From The Growing Need For Food Production."

Growing need. Get it?

 

[grateful1]

LOL! I just caught that Gary.

Guess I've been pretty theoretical of late. I can see my Doctoral Thesis now -

"An Argument For Enforced Birth Control and Euthanasia from a Malthusian Perspective : Increased Threats to Tobacco Farming From The Growing Need For Food Production."

Growing need. Get it?

Have you ever tried being a Theosophists!



To answer your original question.... No!

$27 is not too much for a cigar.....the right cigar!

--------------------------------





VINCENT: Did you just order a five-dollar shake?

MIA: Sure did.

VINCENT: A shake? Milk and ice cream?

MIA: Uh-huh.

VINCENT: It costs five dollars?

MIA: Yep.

VINCENT: You don't put bourbon in it or anything?

WAITOR: Nope. VINCENT: Just checking.

 

[tigger]

Have you ever tried being a Theosophists!

Not yet, but I'm sure it'll come sooner or later.

 

[eddthompson]

$27 so about 14uk pounds, seems quite reasonable! you lot should see the uk prices on such things.

going by one of the main uk stores:

Cohiba Coronas Especiales, box 309 ukp, or $600, $24 a cigar

or

Cohiba Siglo VI, box 512ukp or $1000, $40 a cigar!

the pyrimid els work out at about $40 a cigar!

actualy, very few cubans (read none) are less than $12, most are $15-$40, and you dont realy get anything other than cubans here, no fuentes or padrons, and certainly no south americans with the same name as cubans, copyright laws and all that.

Throw in the fact we have a lower disposable income, and its no wonder cigars are a rare thing here.

edd

(based on current exchange rates, which is prbably a little unfair!)

 

[tigger]

Edd -

As "aquisitive" as our government can be sometimes, I surely don't envy you the taxation you folks face.

 

[cigarsarge]

Sometimes you just have to say "What the hell" and just do it. You only live once...Splurge enough to make life interesting. :thumbs:

 

[Dave]

To justify the cost of a cigar is to allow inhibitions, same as attempting to justify uncorking a Bottle of Dom Pérignon. Do you go to a theme park and skip all the rides? Would you go to a concert wearing ear plugs?

If people are going to do something, they should do it with all diligence to the point of obscene compulsivity (is that a word?). Who knows, maybe what you do now will be the last thing you will ever do, so live it up.

 

[eddthompson]

Edd -

As "aquisitive" as our government can be sometimes, I surely don't envy you the taxation you folks face.

There are ways around it, i love fuentes and i buy them when im in florida, with an allowance of 50 cigars duty free per person i cans stock up if needs be.

Also its a very easy trip across the channel to belgium or holland, or even a flight to spain, where prices are up to 60% less.

edd

 

[Smokyballs]

Lets cut this bullshit to the quick! I work so that I can take care of mine and my families base needs. The money we have left is for us to be able to enjoy the pleasures of life. Rewards are what we are all after! Do you need it, No! Is that the point,No! It's like people that are constantly on a health kick. I don't understand you at all! You are not enjoying being alive! It's your money, do with it what you want. I don't smoke cigars or drink scotch because I want the cheapest way I can do it! I do it because I enjoy it! I want the experience to be the best it can possible be! Quality not quantity always! I can get 30 cigars for $40 or I can two Padron #9s for $40. Never a question, I go for the Padron! You are dedicating you time to something should it not be the best. The time is too expensive for me not to truly enjoy what I'm smoking or drinking.

 

[FlyFish]

A question to add to this.


Does the cigar do more for you BECAUSE it was 27 dollars and not 6 dollars? I've had a buch of 20 dollar-plus cigars that I wasn't really impressed with. I've had a couple that were uterrly wonderful. Troule is you don;t know what you are getting until you pay the frieght and strike the match. That's a main reason I tend to stay away from what the market calls ultra-premium. To me, knowing a cigar was expensive just adds pressure.


Wilkey's point about the wine was a great one. What if you actually like the 12 dollar bottle better? (You're a heathen I know ). We all have different preferences in our taste buds. I will take a regular line Padron Londres over an Opus X of any size any day. What does that mean? Nothing, except that I have smoked both and my taste buds don't care for the profile of the Opus. Just so you don't think I'm a price-only consumer if I had unlimited resources I'd have every Davidoff Diadema Finas that I could get my hands on. To my taste buds that is just about a perfect cigar, and we all know they ain't cheap.

I don't think 27 bucks in this case is outrageous for a couple of reasons.


Reason 1...It IS a Cohiba. The reputation of the brand proceeds it. Your taste buds may not find it to your liking but it will be well made and by all accounts an excellent cigar.


Reason 2...You can spend a boat load more on special dominican releases or under-authenticated vintage cigars where you are taking much more of a risk of getting something that isn't the same caliber of cigar.


If you have the 27 dollars, go for it. But don't go for it because others say it's great. Go for it if YOU think it's going to be great.

 

[Ginseng]

Does the cigar do more for you BECAUSE it was 27 dollars and not 6 dollars? I've had a buch of 20 dollar-plus cigars that I wasn't really impressed with. I've had a couple that were uterrly wonderful. Troule is you don;t know what you are getting until you pay the frieght and strike the match. That's a main reason I tend to stay away from what the market calls ultra-premium. To me, knowing a cigar was expensive just adds pressure.

FFish,

I think the expectations that exceptionally expensive cigars carry can serve to amplify our evaulation at both ends of the performance spectrum. In other words, if the cigar is "good+" then we may tend to consider it better than if we were unaware of the cost. However, if the cigar is "poor-" then we may assess it more harshly than we otherwise might.

Cost is a double-edged sword. In one sense, it is protective of the product reputation because it can buoy our assessment of a product that is at least acceptable in performance. On the other hand, it can also trigger resentment if the product fails to marginally meet expectations.

How different people react differently to expensive cigars is, in part, a function of our various acceptable/non-acceptable thresholds.

Wilkey