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MDF inside a Diamond Crown St. James 160 count humidor!?

nismo270r

nismo270r

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
412
Location
Northern KY
So I got to poking around inside a 160 count Diamond Crown St. James "Oxford" the other day and was a little taken back by what I saw. I knew they were a "box-in-a-box" design, so I assumed underneath that pretty veneer was going to be MDF, albeit very thick MDF under nice veneer. One of the side panels of the cedar liner was a little loose, so I slid it up expecting to see a solid piece of cedar, but found this instead:
dc1.jpg
dc2.jpg


The top inch or so was cedar dovetailed into a piece of MDF with cedar veneer on the interior side of the box. :0 This prompted me to remove the other sides of the liner and floor. All were the same, including the floor was MDF with cedar veneer. Now, it's layed out properly to allow for expansion and all, but I would have thought for a box that retails at 500 some bucks it would at least be solid cedar liners!? Anyone else did surgery on one of these, or could this possibly be a counterfeit? I'm glad my Igloo didn't cost $500!
 
I recall them moving some manufacturing overseas...back around 2008.

Does your box say 'Made in the China'?
 
I don't recall seeing any markings other than the Diamond Crown logo on the inside of the lid, but I'll take a look. I wouldn't expect solid wood construction at that price for the outer section, but I would have guessed at least a solid cedar liner! I wonder how hard it would be to replace the liner with solid cedar? And no, I paid nowhere close to retail...I think a couple bills wasn't bad for a 160 ct that's built solid.
 
Meh, the 160 was made in China...I have a 40 ct I picked up awhile ago that only had a quality control sticker on it, but the cedar liner isn't loose at all in it. I wonder how difficult it would be to remove the liner in the 160 and have pieces made to the same sizes/specs out of solid cedar...any woodworkers out there have any insight? The only thing I would worry about is the seal between the lid and the liner without the person making cutting the new liner having the whole box.
 
Yea, that sucks. I don't mind MDF because with proper construction, it can be stable ad not warp, but the price should be a lot less. I have a small shallow 20 ct diamond crown and the whole interior, after removing the cedar panels and floor (inner box) is completely MDF. The old Reed and Barton pieces were superior, imo.
 
Yes that is a shame, but that is what is out there now.
 
Bob Staebell checked in on this, back in 2009. As an owner of one of his products, I found it interesting. I paid Bob thousands of dollars for a beautiful cabinet that has high density composite board in it, knowing what I was getting. It's working perfectly, and I expect it outlive me by quite a while:

----------------------------------

I always enjoy when the topic of solid wood vs veneers in humidors comes up because it allows me to shed a little light on one of the more misunderstood areas of wood working. Which is better solid wood or a veneer?? The correct answer is both-- it depends on the specie of wood & application.

Not all woods are structurally sound enough to use as solid wood & there are applications where the expansion/contraction that occurs in any wood is undesirable.

There is no reputable humidor maker anywhere that would not use veneers in certain applications. To limit oneself to using only solid wood or only veneers, would mean that one could only build a very limited style of furniture & eliminate about 1/2 of the available woods for any given project.

Many of our most treasured antiques are made from a mix of veneers & solid woods.

Here are a couple of examples that came up in the first page of google for antique furniture. The crotch mahogany & walnut burl are used as veneers, because they are too unstable to use as a solid thick wood, as are many other highly figured woods.

http://www.rubylane.com/shop/piatik/item/PS04-12-06-01

< Broken link deleted - B.B.S. >

The craftsmen who built these great pieces with veneer didn't do so because they wanted to spend a year making a thin veneer with only the hand tools available 2-300 years ago--they did it because a thick solid wood burl would never survive more than a couple of years, much less the couple of centuries as these did by using veneers.

We simply continue the same tradition of fine woodworking by using the correct material--veneer or solid wood--using the same criteria they did 200 years ago. The physics of wood movement does not change. What has changed is we have better adhesives &amp;amp; a wider range of substrate materials to choose from.

This is why you will also see humidors by venerable makers Davidoff, Elie Bleu, Dunhill, Ashton, all using veneers, when high density tropical hardwoods &amp;amp; highly figured woods are involved. They like I, want our creations to last.

Re costMany of my veneers are layed up in a custom shop that specializes in working with nothing but veneers. They have millions of $ tied up in specialized veneer stitchers, 10 ft guillotines, & a veneer press that fills a large room. Quite often my costs for the finished veneer on a high end mdf or medex substrate are substantially higher than purchasing a solid slab of the same wood.

Cheers,
Bob Staebell
Aristocrat Humidors

----------------------------------

So, I guess the question is - was it advertised as a 'solid wood' humidor or what that your expectation? Does it hold the RH properly? Those are the things I'd worry most about....

JMHO - B.B.S.
 
&amp;nbsp;
BlindedByScience said:
Bob Staebell checked in on this, back in 2009. As an owner of one of his products, I found it interesting. I paid Bob thousands of dollars for a beautiful cabinet that has high density composite board in it, knowing what I was getting. It's working perfectly, and I expect it outlive me by quite a while:

----------------------------------

I always enjoy when the topic of solid wood vs veneers in humidors comes up because it allows me to shed a little light on one of the more misunderstood areas of wood working. Which is better solid wood or a veneer?? The correct answer is both-- it depends on the specie of wood &amp;amp; application.

Not all woods are structurally sound enough to use as solid wood &amp;amp; there are applications where the expansion/contraction that occurs in any wood is undesirable.

There is no reputable humidor maker anywhere that would not use veneers in certain applications. To limit oneself to using only solid wood or only veneers, would mean that one could only build a very limited style of furniture &amp;amp; eliminate about 1/2 of the available woods for any given project.

Many of our most treasured antiques are made from a mix of veneers &amp;amp; solid woods.

Here are a couple of examples that came up in the first page of google for antique furniture. The crotch mahogany &amp;amp;amp;amp; walnut burl are used as veneers, because they are too unstable to use as a solid thick wood, as are many other highly figured woods.

http://www.rubylane.com/shop/piatik/item/PS04-12-06-01

&amp;lt; Broken link deleted - B.B.S. &amp;gt;

The craftsmen who built these great pieces with veneer didn't do so because they wanted to spend a year making a thin veneer with only the hand tools available 2-300 years ago--they did it because a thick solid wood burl would never survive more than a couple of years, much less the couple of centuries as these did by using veneers.

We simply continue the same tradition of fine woodworking by using the correct material--veneer or solid wood--using the same criteria they did 200 years ago. The physics of wood movement does not change. What has changed is we have better adhesives &amp;amp;amp;amp; a wider range of substrate materials to choose from.

This is why you will also see humidors by venerable makers Davidoff, Elie Bleu, Dunhill, Ashton, all using veneers, when high density tropical hardwoods &amp;amp;amp;amp; highly figured woods are involved. They like I, want our creations to last.

Re costMany of my veneers are layed up in a custom shop that specializes in working with nothing but veneers. They have millions of $ tied up in specialized veneer stitchers, 10 ft guillotines, &amp;amp; a veneer press that fills a large room. Quite often my costs for the finished veneer on a high end mdf or medex substrate are substantially higher than purchasing a solid slab of the same wood.

Cheers,
Bob Staebell
Aristocrat Humidors

----------------------------------

So, I guess the question is - was it advertised as a 'solid wood' humidor or what that your expectation? Does it hold the RH properly? Those are the things I'd worry most about....

JMHO - B.B.S.
Click to expand...
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BindedByScience, thank you for that thread. That certainly cleared up some misconceptions in my mind.
 
This topic got me very interested in my humi, the Monaco from Cheaphumidors, so I wrote them. They replyed that the interior is 100% Spanish cedar, no veneer or MDF bs going on. Guess I'll take their word for it.
 
Respectfully, to me, MDF made to look like wood is cheating. If it is intended to look like wood then it SHOULD BE WOOD. MDF can be painted.

MDF does lay flat when it comes from the manufacturer. And does stay flat [for the most part] but that is not all there is.......

MDF does not hold fastners as well as natural wood. To make humidors useable they all require hinges of one sort or another and they are attached most commonly with screws. Time will loosen the screws in MDF whereas natural wood will provide much more endurance and longevity.
 
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