Resolved!

[moki]

Well first off you can copy right a web site design, however no one can push a copyright through that quickly. So if Oscar dose copyright it, it would be after the fact of the lawsuit being filled and thus invalid. Also unfortunately since you don’t have trademarks or copyrights, your web design is know as public domain and is available for free use.

I'm not sure where people get these ideas, but what you've stated it patently (pun intended) false.

Your web site is copyrighted as soon as you create it; much as a picture is copyrighted as soon as you take it, or a book copyrighted as soon as you write it. It falls under common law. You don't even have to slap a Copyright notice on it (but it certainly will aid your case if you do).

You can of course register your copyright, which does take some time to process, but is still fairly painless... however that simply gains you some additional protections.

The idea that your web site becomes public domain if you do not register your copyright on it is completely untrue as well.

 

[Mrepp]

Well first off you can copy right a web site design, however no one can push a copyright through that quickly. So if Oscar dose copyright it, it would be after the fact of the lawsuit being filled and thus invalid. Also unfortunately since you don’t have trademarks or copyrights, your web design is know as public domain and is available for free use.

I'm not sure where people get these ideas, but what you've stated it patently (pun intended) false.

Your web site is copyrighted as soon as you create it; much as a picture is copyrighted as soon as you take it, or a book copyrighted as soon as you write it. It falls under common law. You don't even have to slap a Copyright notice on it (but it certainly will aid your case if you do).

You can of course register your copyright, which does take some time to process, but is still fairly painless... however that simply gains you some additional protections.

The idea that your web site becomes public domain if you do not register your copyright on it is completely untrue as well.

I stand corrected you are right moki, very loosely you are original works protected. So Mike if you composed the script for your website yourself and didn’t barrow it from an html composer or didn’t find it published its considered copyrighted. But to say one can take work that’s considered public domain (if you used an html composing program) the basic layout with out the same original work isn’t protected. For example one could take BB and basically create a site that mimics CP including the back ground and base colors just not the original composed buttons or banner.

 

[mhortsch]

I don't know squat about this, but as I designer Im curious... having someone infringe on your copyrighted site, would they not have to copy it exactly.

Things get designed all the time, but there are no issues unless they are strikingly similar, if not exact.

Looking at Mikes and Oscars site, there is no way in my eye that the 2 are that similar.

There is a similar grid technique used, but in order for Oscar to say Mikes site is stealing, he would have to copy every single design element over, and just change the copy / links.

Like if I design a brocure of an apple wearing headphones, and you design one of an orange wearing headphones, there's no infringement.

If you design the same apple but wearing different headphones, that's a problem.

Am I wrong in this theory?

 

[PetersCreek]

I'm sure glad Moki said what he did, confirming my lay-understanding of copyright law.

I'll also go out on a limb and disagree with a substantial point of Mrepp's latest post, as well. There are other points to consider besides copyright and trademark. I casually watched a lawsuit from the sidelines involving two firearms manufacturers.

Legal disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. I don't play a lawyer on television. I think lawyers smell funny. My ramblings are not to be considered legal advice and sincerely hope that any resident legal beagles will correct my uninformed or ill-thought-out statements where necessary...

Colt decided to sue a maker of reproduction Peacemakers because they evidently thought the reproductions were a little too accurate. Their legal theory was that the repros infringed on Colt's "trade dress"...that is the unique appearance and style that consumers associate with the Colt name and, they insisted, the Colt name only. They maintained that this infringement was so severe, that consumers might somehow be confused about whether or not they were actually purchasing a genuine Colt, therefore unfairly harming their business.

So, while a website's appearance may not rise to the level of a "created work" that merits copyright protection, copying a site design that is strongly associated with a business may be actionable if the plaintiff can prove damages.

 

[smokelaw1]

I wish I knew something about copyright law so I could look all SMRT and stuff.
PS- I do not smell funny.

 

[Mrepp]

Well maybe I was a bit too vague with my statement PetersCreek. What I meant was he used a MS template, and general java from what I see. Basically he used someone else’s picture frame to relay his information. So if Oscar wanted to use the same picture frame, which is copyrighted by MS and not Mike and If Mike didn’t use any original html script for it, it’s not his to copyright. Only the content of the site is his. Just like BB owns the look of there software. Rod only owns his original content created for this site. So if one where to use the same base brown theme rod uses that’s offered through BB software there completely with in their right to do so. They just can’t copy rods graphics. Just like Colt's "trade dress" was there original creation for the appearance of their guns so of course someone else cant copy what is original. I’m by not means an expert at all and I’m sure Moki by far knows more then me. I’m just offering what I believe to be correct.

 

[mdman]

I dont care that they use that script..

The problem is, they are making their site look like mine, to make me look like I copied their look..


its a malicious act just to make it look like I am copying them...

 

[moki]

I dont care that they use that script..

The problem is, they are making their site look like mine, to make me look like I copied their look..


its a malicious act just to make it look like I am copying them...

You have history, in the form of www.archive.org on your side.

 

[mdman]

Just an update guys..
My Lawyer is kicking ass and things are looking good... I cant say much now but lets just say that statment in the catalog they made is going to hurt them a lot...
I have a feeling Mikes Cigars is going to wish they had not started anything as I will be left in a much stronger position in the end..

I wish I could say more now, but after this is over I will post all the public docs for all to see.

 

[Herfin Bigdog]

Mike,

I don't know if anyone else has done this, but I emailed Mike's Cigars and told them that I no longer wish to patronize their business, and cited the lawsuit as my reason. I was getting their email special sales, and I asked them to remove me from their list.

I hope they're getting a similar response from others who are aware of the foolish behavior on the part of Mike's Cigars.

 

[stogieman]

Just an update guys..
My Lawyer is kicking ass and things are looking good... I cant say much now but lets just say that statment in the catalog they made is going to hurt them a lot...
I have a feeling Mikes Cigars is going to wish they had not started anything as I will be left in a much stronger position in the end..

I wish I could say more now, but after this is over I will post all the public docs for all to see.

It's great to hear that your lawyer is taking care of things and all will work out at the end for you. Keep us updated and keep the faith as well...... :thumbs:

 

[MrJerry]

I'm on your side all the way Mike™! I'll only buy from MD Cigars!!

I really hope things work out for the best for you as you've always been a great guy to deal with and on hell of a retailer!

 

[Pegleg]

I understand you violated an agreement you had with Mike's.

Care to elaborate?

 

[smokelaw1]

I understand you violated an agreement you had with Mike's.

Care to elaborate?

I have no knowledge of this case that everyone else here does not, but I strongly urge all involved to not comment further(or attempt to extract comments) on pending litigation. It can do nothing but hurt everone involved, and create furhter animosity.

 

[mdman]

I understand you violated an agreement you had with Mike's.

Care to elaborate?

Actually, they violated an aggrement they had with us..

We agreed 5 years ago not to use "Mikes Cigars" in our tradmark. we used to be Mikes Discount Cigars.
So, to please them, we changed our name, and our business to MD Cigars

Now, 5 years later they want us to stop using Mike on our website all together, such in letters from the troops saying "Thanks Mike" and so on. and they dont want us selling "Mike Ditka Cigars" because they dont like that we use Mike on our website. saying it confuses the public.
So, they now say I should not use my name at all, anywhere.

My name is Mike, their names are Oscar and Oded..
as have as much right to mention me on my company website as they do when they mention Oscar.

I have a right to use my name in the text of the pages.. we in no way try to represent our company as Mikes Cigars..

So, they broke the agreement by taking the actions they have taken, and its going to cost them a lot.. Money and more

Just the statment they made on their catalog proves they are being malicious, and not concerned about their mark.

 

[tobaccoleaf1]

I understand the agreement and how they would want to protect the name "Mike" or "Mike's" as it applys to cigars, but the only Mike reference I can find on mdcigars is on the Troops page. Are they going to try and sue that nice man with the big gun too? He's the culprit after all...


Ian

 

[cigargirl]

I understand the agreement and how they would want to protect the name "Mike" or "Mike's" as it applys to cigars, but the only Mark reference I can find on mdcigars is on the Troops page. Are they going to try and sue that nice man with the big gun too? He's the culprit after all...


Ian

I agree, are you supposed to change your name? sheezzz... Talk about petty. I did a search for "mike cigar shop" on 3 different search engines and you didn't even pop up on the any of the first 4 pages (didn't look further). Are they going to go after every cigar shop (that they view as competition :0 ) that has a web page & the store is owned by "Mike"?

 

[mhortsch]

I don't have the catalog, nor have I seen it. What's it say?

 

[Gonz]

and they dont want us selling "Mike Ditka Cigars" because they dont like that we use Mike on our website.

Do you guys have any of those Mike Ditka cigars in stock? The ones that Graycliff made for him? I've been somewhat casually looking for those for a gift for my Dad, since he's a huge Bears fan.

 

[smokelaw1]

and they dont want us selling "Mike Ditka Cigars" because they dont like that we use Mike on our website.

Do you guys have any of those Mike Ditka cigars in stock? The ones that Graycliff made for him? I've been somewhat casually looking for those for a gift for my Dad, since he's a huge Bears fan.

{groundskeeper Willy Voice} Do ya want to get sued, boy? {end}