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Send Lawyers, Guns and Money Pass - below 50 RG only- Completed.

Joebunaga said:
Sorry about the wait.
 
T: La Palina El Diario Kill Bill II
P: Quesada Kaiser Ludwig
 
T: Partagas Super Partagas MJR MAR13
P: H Upmann 1/2 Corona SAB MAY13
 
T: Headley Grange Hermosa
P: Illusione 888
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The first two are almost dead on by my estimates.  Number three looks like about a eighty cent over-put.  Anyone else getting that, or is my Wyoming public school education failing me?
 
This pass is turning out to be MUCH harder to calculate puts and takes than the newbie pass. 
 
ironpeddler said:
When price comparing, there seems to be roughly 3 vendor categories when talking the higher end sticks. Like I said...roughly 3! :laugh: When doing price comparisons, check 5-6 sites and you'll see how they slot into these categories based on their final selling price. One day sales, closeouts, and the like have to be eliminated...if you don't, that opens up another can of worms like in CC. 
 
Keep in mind, this is a loose standard and prices are based on availability and the vendor's buying power. Also, there has been a standard that box pricing is used, not 5 or 10 pack pricing.
 
1) MSRP guys...Smoke Inn (50/50), New Havana (douche)
 
2) Discounters...Holts, Emerson's, Corona, Famous
 
3) Deep discounters...Federal, Serious, Atlantic, CI
 
As we all know, pricing policies are different for each brand. Like Padron & Davidoff...those companies put strict guidelines out on discounting their products and come down on vendors that try to discount them 'publicly'. But if you check with each of these online vendors and a few more, you will see a pattern of pricing start to emerge.
 
Tat Guapos 46
 
Famous...$166.99
Corona...$166.00
New Havana...$185.00
Holt's...$165.95
Smoke Inn...$164.95
Federal...$152.00
CI...$166.00
Bonita's...$166.50
Serious...$150.95 
Atlantic (Club Pricing)...$113.95
 
As you can see, with the above vendor classifications aside, the prices are very similar except the Atlantic Club Pricing. So, throw out the top & bottom price and add the three middle prices together and divide by 60 (20 per box) to get an average price of the cigar.
 
While some guys may think this is "work" and "not fun", I was always under the impression it was just the right thing to do...AND fun, informative, and educational at the same time. This is how I was taught how to do it here.  :thumbs:
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This being my first pass I know I am in good company with the guys that are participating in it. I'll be honest I have been crapping my pants wanting to make sure I do the right thing and be of benifit to the pass and not a hindrance. I appreciate all the information by you guys. It has definitely been very helpful.
Thanks guys!
 
Again... With thinner guage smokes, it is tougher than normal. You are eliminating the potential trades in all other vitolas that could be of similar value.
 
CMontoya79 said:
Again... With thinner guage smokes, it is tougher than normal. You are eliminating the potential trades in all other vitolas that could be of similar value.
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Now THAT'S the fun part!
 
Yeah, this was challenging. Between discarding 52 ring stuff that I thought smaller, jumping around pricing holes and tossing rares out I really struggled to find the right matches. Which I didn't expect! But that's what makes this stuff interesting!
 
mjornir1, your math was probably right. My pricing on P/T was based on Serious/Famous/Smoke Inn prices on both, averaging 8.48 on the Illusione and 8.06 on the Headley. I put in knowing it was an overput but was hoping that'd be tight enough.
 
I don't have a problem pulling that if its not close enough.
 
Joebunaga said:
Yeah, this was challenging. Between discarding 52 ring stuff that I thought smaller, jumping around pricing holes and tossing rares out I really struggled to find the right matches. Which I didn't expect! But that's what makes this stuff interesting!
 
mjornir1, your math was probably right. My pricing on P/T was based on Serious/Famous/Smoke Inn prices on both, averaging 8.48 on the Illusione and 8.06 on the Headley. I put in knowing it was an overput but was hoping that'd be tight enough.
 
I don't have a problem pulling that if its not close enough.
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Cut the cap of it before you put it in!
 
I've already had that happen once before, I ain't gonna be cut again!
 
Don't cut the cap off, just take a bit off the foot. If no one else takes it, I often don't care for the first .42 cents worth anyhow!
 
Joebunaga said:
Yeah, this was challenging. Between discarding 52 ring stuff that I thought smaller, jumping around pricing holes and tossing rares out I really struggled to find the right matches. Which I didn't expect! But that's what makes this stuff interesting!
 
mjornir1, your math was probably right. My pricing on P/T was based on Serious/Famous/Smoke Inn prices on both, averaging 8.48 on the Illusione and 8.06 on the Headley. I put in knowing it was an overput but was hoping that'd be tight enough.
 
I don't have a problem pulling that if its not close enough.
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Joe, I have no issues with 42 cents... I think you're good to go.  Anyone else have any thoughts?
 
Guys, $.42 isn't worth discussing at all.  You'll be hard pressed to find 100% equal puts/takes in any pass.
 
bfreebern said:
Guys, $.42 isn't worth discussing at all.  You'll be hard pressed to find 100% equal puts/takes in any pass.
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I was just popping it to weigh in on this exact thought.   While Ken, and everyone, appreciates you working hard to keep puts/takes close, this isn't a newbie pass where you have to be within .25 cents.   Overputs happen in most passes.  As long as you aren't getting into the $5+ range on overputs, then it's really fine as long as the pass host is good with it.   Don't overthink it, it'll take the fun out of it. 
 
As long as we're discussing P&T protocol, I get to put my $00.02 in.....
 
I agree with Gary 100% and equal value for equal value is the expectation.  Plain and simple, that's the way it's done.  However...the final say should always be the guy who started the pass.  Why...??
 
Maybe I know the guy that started the pass, and I want to crush him a little with an over put.  Or maybe one of the players is a good friend of the pass starter, wants a HTF stick, and suggests an under puts of a little bit...and maybe that's OK with the guy that started the pass.  In all cases, the pass starter should be the final arbiter.  Hey, his smokes, his pass, his rules.....right..??
 
In any event, we all know what's expected, but exceptions can and should be thought through.  This is a hobby, and we're supposed to be having fun, last time I checked..... ;)
 
As they say, one man's opinion...B.B.S.
 
Bsneed51 said:
 
Guys, $.42 isn't worth discussing at all.  You'll be hard pressed to find 100% equal puts/takes in any pass.
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I was just popping it to weigh in on this exact thought.   While Ken, and everyone, appreciates you working hard to keep puts/takes close, this isn't a newbie pass where you have to be within .25 cents.   Overputs happen in most passes.  As long as you aren't getting into the $5+ range on overputs, then it's really fine as long as the pass host is good with it.   Don't overthink it, it'll take the fun out of it. 
 
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BlindedByScience said:
As long as we're discussing P&T protocol, I get to put my $00.02 in.....
 
I agree with Gary 100% and equal value for equal value is the expectation.  Plain and simple, that's the way it's done.  However...the final say should always be the guy who started the pass.  Why...??
 
Maybe I know the guy that started the pass, and I want to crush him a little with an over put.  Or maybe one of the players is a good friend of the pass starter, wants a HTF stick, and suggests an under puts of a little bit...and maybe that's OK with the guy that started the pass.  In all cases, the pass starter should be the final arbiter.  Hey, his smokes, his pass, his rules.....right..??
 
In any event, we all know what's expected, but exceptions can and should be thought through.  This is a hobby, and we're supposed to be having fun, last time I checked..... ;)
 
As they say, one man's opinion...B.B.S.
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Thanks, guys... lesson learned.  Now when do address pirates and stuff?

 
 
BlindedByScience said:
As long as we're discussing P&T protocol, I get to put my $00.02 in.....
 
I agree with Gary 100% and equal value for equal value is the expectation.  Plain and simple, that's the way it's done.  However...the final say should always be the guy who started the pass.  Why...??
 
Maybe I know the guy that started the pass, and I want to crush him a little with an over put.  Or maybe one of the players is a good friend of the pass starter, wants a HTF stick, and suggests an under puts of a little bit...and maybe that's OK with the guy that started the pass.  In all cases, the pass starter should be the final arbiter.  Hey, his smokes, his pass, his rules.....right..??
 
In any event, we all know what's expected, but exceptions can and should be thought through.  This is a hobby, and we're supposed to be having fun, last time I checked..... ;)
 
As they say, one man's opinion...B.B.S.
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I agree with you for the most part.  I think we always want to stay close when possible.  My personal opinion has always been that I'm not sweating a put/take that's off by .50-$1.   While most sticks are priced in a fairly close range, a few pennies here or there never bothers me.    If someone is over putting by $3 on every stick, then yes it's an issue.    I look at them as $8-10-12 sticks, and don't break them all the way down to $11.37 vs $12.23.   But, ultimately it's the pass hosts call.
 
As a wise man says, one man's opinion.
 
personal User said:
Interpretation of rules: If the cigars look good and are something that people are interested in smoking, dollar values and equality shall be loosely interpreted, by me anyhow. The idea here is that if people's puts are something that those later in the pass might want or want to try it's a good put to me.
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" However...the final say should always be the guy who started the pass.......This is a hobby, and we're supposed to be having fun"
 
This host wants passers to take some good smokes they have not had, and put some good smokes in that others might want to try. It's not about the dollars, it's about smoking and having fun and trying something new and hopefully something interesting.
 
My cigars are at risk. I knew that when I started the pass. Hey, the USPS may lose the box. The passers reputations are at risk if their level of integrity does not match in their puts/takes.
 
If it's a good smoke that others are going to want, it's a good put. I would rather people determine their puts/takes by thinking about how good a smoke, and interesting a smoke it is rather than the cost. Passers should be looking at how much others will enjoy their put than how much it costs. And yes, it should be relative - somewhat. I want the pass to be memorable for the interesting cigars the passers picked up and smoked, not for how hard it was to match cost on small RG's
 
Most of all, I would like this pass to be remembered for the huge final box of cigars that thechenman sends off to the troops!
 
Gents, Alan and I will be exchanging the pass at a proper pub tomorrow. Adult beverages will be consumed, cigars will be smoked.

If we wrap up soon enough I'll try and locate a PO and get it in the mail tomorrow. Otherwise it'll go out on Monday.

Ceasar, you're on deck bro!
 
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