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Sick Period

G

Great King Rat

New Member
Science of ISOMs - Sick Period

1.)Why are ISOMs more prone of getting sick?
2.)What is the time period smoker has before the cigar transitions to being sick.
3.)What are typical symptoms when a cigar is sick? Detail on taste/draw please.
4.)When will the cigar come out of sick period?
5.)Can a cigar go back into sick period?

The reason I ask these questions is because I changed vendors recently to save a few bucks and the cigars are not up to par. They do not tatse ISOM. Out of 4 PSD4s I smoke only 1 tasted good :angry:. I was under the impression that PSD4s are good from the box.

I have been doing searches and there is no clear answer on sick period. Perhaps, this is the nature of the beast. On the other hand I read that some cigars do not get sick. Is this a true statement. If so, which brands.
 
Great King Rat said:
Science of ISOMs - Sick Period

1.)Why are ISOMs more prone of getting sick?
2.)What is the time period smoker has before the cigar transitions to being sick.
3.)What are typical symptoms when a cigar is sick? Detail on taste/draw please.
4.)When will the cigar come out of sick period?
5.)Can a cigar go back into sick period?
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1. Because the Cubans do not age their cigars before they ship them. Unless it's a special release like the PSD#4 Reserva. Whereas most non-cuban manufacturers age the cigars before shipment.
2. It usually depends on the cigar and amount of age it already has. I'd say around 6 months to a year.
3. I usually know a cigar is sick when it tastes flat. Meaning there are no characteristics at all in the cigar.
4. Yes it will. It can take anywhere from 6 months to 3-5 years to come out of a sick period. Some cigars take longer, i.e. RASS and PSD#4.
5. I believe there are 3 maturation periods. But that is very longterm aging 10-20+ years. I'd have to research it more and I think MRN may mention this in his book.
 
Thanks Clif,

I think I need to pick a copy of the MRN.

Some of PSD4's I have now taste really bad, like rolled up paper. I will have to wait and see if they are real or not. In mean time no more Australia for me.

Thanks
 
cvmfour, is there any indication as to the draw , can you tell if the cigar is sick by just drawing on it? The ones that have been bad have had a very open draw for me: Almost felt like I was drawing air out of a straw. The only good one had a firm draw to it. Am I onto something here or is it my imagination.
 
cvmfour said:
Great King Rat said:
Science of ISOMs - Sick Period

1.)Why are ISOMs more prone of getting sick?
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1. Because the Cubans do not age their cigars before they ship them. Unless it's a special release like the PSD#4 Reserva. Whereas most non-cuban manufacturers age the cigars before shipment.
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Just to add something here. Just because a cigar uses aged tobacco, doesn't mean that it won't taste young or fresh. The PSD#4 reserva uses 5-year aged tobacco; but it was just rolled recently. From what I have been told, the moisture added during the rolling process allows the tobacco to undergo further fermentation, which means that it will need time to sit and mature even though it is an "aged cigar".

Patrick
 
cvmfour said:
I'm not really sure. I haven't noticed a relation between being sick and the draw. ???
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MRN actually talks about this in his book. According to MRN, some cigars will not draw well if they are not properly aged. He does not specifically call equate this to the sick period, but to the hygroscopic (sp?) of some of the tobaccos. He especially points to Cohiba with this comment.

As for the draw problems with the PSD4s, could be any number of things. My first question would be...what is the box code? If it is very recent, they could just taste young. However, PSD4s typically taste pretty good young, so there could be other issues. One, are they real? Did they come from a trusted source? Two, maybe you just don't like PSD4s. Have you had them before?

Just a few thoughts.

LC-Smoker said:
cvmfour said:
Great King Rat said:
Science of ISOMs - Sick Period

1.)Why are ISOMs more prone of getting sick?
Click to expand...

1. Because the Cubans do not age their cigars before they ship them. Unless it's a special release like the PSD#4 Reserva. Whereas most non-cuban manufacturers age the cigars before shipment.
Click to expand...

Just to add something here. Just because a cigar uses aged tobacco, doesn't mean that it won't taste young or fresh. The PSD#4 reserva uses 5-year aged tobacco; but it was just rolled recently. From what I have been told, the moisture added during the rolling process allows the tobacco to undergo further fermentation, which means that it will need time to sit and mature even though it is an "aged cigar".

Patrick
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Patrick. Yep, you are right. Just because the tobacco is aged does not mean that it will not go through another fermentation once it has been wet for rolling. Some tobaccos go through more "prominent" fermentations than others. Typically, this is indicated by the ammonia taste (or even smell).

It is not an aged cigar...it is a young cigar made with aged tobacco. A big difference. :)
 
Box code is from 2004. The bad ones I had were nasty with a wide open draw. This order came from Australia. However, this was the first time for me from that region of the world and perhaps the last. I had heard good thing about the source. I do wonder now.

I will just have to wait and see now.
 
A sick period can last for years. They are especially long on thicker ring gauged cigars i.e 46 and up. Partagas Serie D 4's suck when young and take a minimum of 4-5 years before they develop. The reason cigars need time is because the filler, binder and wrapper need years for them to marry. If you are smelling ammonia I would be worried about your source.Ammonia is released when the tobacco is in the fermentation process, I don't care how young a cigar is, ammonia smell should never be present.

Thinner ring gauged cigars i.e 42 and below generally take only a couple of years before they are smokeable, because there is much less filler to marry.

In reference to the EL's and special releases, just because they use aged tobacco, it doesn't mean they don't need years to develop.In my experience the tobacco used in the EL's sucks. The wrappers look like that crap H92 they developed in 99 and 00, thick dark and crap tasting.
 
The Master said:
If you are smelling ammonia I would be worried about your source.Ammonia is released when the tobacco is in the fermentation process, I don't care how young a cigar is, ammonia smell should never be present.

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Actually, MRN even discusses the ammonia smell/taste in his book. I don't equate this to part of the sick period, but cigars that are rolled and then immediately sent to market can and do impart a smell/taste of ammonia. The tobacco is dampened during the rolling process. That moisture, simply through the laws of chemistry, initiates another fermentation process. Hopefully, the cigars are aged long enough at the factory or on the retailer's shelves long enough to finish this final fermentation. However, it is possible to get cigars that are "young" or "freshly-rolled" enough to give off some ammonia. Not the norm, but certainly possible. I wouldn't necessarily question the source, but would ask about the cigars and how long they had been sitting (and at what humidity).

That said, I have had no Habanos with the ammonia smell/taste, so theoretically, they have completed or nearly completed the fermentation process.
 
cigardawg, I also have never had the smell of ammonia in any of my cigars. I have bought tons of boxes that were fresh and never once did I smell ammonia.

I recently recieved some custom rolled bundles and they were as fresh as fresh can be and they didn't have even a hint of ammonia. I think Min is wrong on this subject as well as others.
 
I recently smoked a Quai d'Orsay from 95. It smelled clean and tested good for half of it. The second half was very amoniac. It was my only sample which I have had in my possesion for a couple years. I have never smelled amonia in a box of ISOMS, but I have tasted way too many times. So if one can taste it, I am sure one can smell it in a box that has been sealed in cellophane since it's boxing.

Emo
 
I'm in the same boat as Emo. I've had plenty of immature cigars with ammonia tases in them. I have experienced this in PSD4s before and simply let them age before smoking another from the same box. Even letting them age for a year has made a difference for me.
 
I have not had any ammonia taste with my isoms since I dropped the humi RH to 65%.

Now, I have not smoked that many isoms to make that certain conclusions. However, my cigars smoke and tatse better at 65%.

I think I was sold some fakes. Supposedly, this vendor had an impeccable reputation. My Foot. No more gars from Australia. Vendor mixes good with fakes.

If you need the source name PM me.
 
GreatKing, you are absolutely 100 percent wrong about your recieving fakes from Wal Baranow. His reputation is above reproach. I have seen so many terrible boxes of Cuban cigars with ten different wrapper shades, different sizes and pathetic tasting. Wal does not mix real cigars in with fakes and the next time you accuse some one of sending fakes you should check with people like me first.
 
Perhaps, you are correct Master.

I should send few cigars your way and you can judge for your self.

Again, I never names the saource. I just mentioned the region.

I just wish you had replied earlier.

Please PM if you would like to try out few sticks.

Regards
 
I have a box of Upmann #2 I bought in 00 and they reaked of ammonia when I first got them. Maybe that had soething to do with their aging but I have smoked one an every year anniversary since I got them and they really just came around. I have to tell you that the one I smoked this year knocked my socks off! I wander if agin them out of the box would help them develop quicker. I have heard of ammonia smell being present and these were from a great source.
 
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