So I wanted to buy a shotgun...

[dlow]

So, I've been wanting to buy a shotgun for about year or so now. My criteria was that I wanted something that's good for home defense, I could shoot skeet with, wasn't more than $1k and was semi auto. I go to the gun show this past weekend here in Atlanta and I begin looking around. I look at a few remingtons and some benelli's but they were either too expensive or cheaply made. Also, I've shot benelli's a couple of times and wasn't too happy with the performance as they have issues ejecting lighter load ammo such as the crappy target loads from walmart. Plus, it's really hard to clear a jam with those things. Then I'm tooling around at one table with assault rifles looking for an mp5 and come across this thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12 I ask the dealer about it and he says without blinking "it's basically an AK shotgun." :0 I did a double take and said "a what now?" He explained that the gun is a saiga-12, which is a shotgun made by the same factory that makes the AK in Russia and that it's based on the AK design, only scaled up to be a shotgun. I pick it up and mess around a bit and sure enough, it's just like an AK, stamped metal, crappy paint and all. I was in love. Anyways... to make a long story short. I've got my home defense gun now. :laugh:

Here's a youtube video if you're interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gESLOmz-4sc

Due to silly gun laws here in the us (922r), these are imported in a "sporting configuration." This means no pistol grip and a rather cheap stock, but once I'm done with it, this thing is going to be a beast. I'll try to post pics of it as I make progress. I can't wait to try it out this weekend at the range.

 

[360]

Acquiring a pistol grip and collapsible stock for this really shouldn't be that hard. I'll be looking for a progress report after you run about 1000 rounds through it. I could see the possibility of jamming/feeding issues but could be totally wrong on that too. Let us know! Nice gun too :thumbs:

 

[dlow]

Acquiring a pistol grip and collapsible stock for this really shouldn't be that hard. I'll be looking for a progress report after you run about 1000 rounds through it. I could see the possibility of jamming/feeding issues but could be totally wrong on that too. Let us know! Nice gun too :thumbs:

Thanks man! It's an AK, so it takes some break in to get it working. These things work better when they are worn a bit (it's an AK)... But they are super reliable, easy to clear jams and once you tweak them to get them working correctly, they don't break, so I've read. I'm expecting to have to work through some initial break in problems, but that comes with the territory... Again, it's an AK :laugh:

Ohh, and there's plenty of parts for these. I've already got everything picked out for it. I just need to make sure everything is working well before I go modding it. They are really popular since it's pretty much the only semi-auto shotgun with a clip that you can get in the US and are very cheap.

 

[Wurm]

Buy all the extras and parts you need now because Saiga just declared bankruptcy!

 

[haguc]

That is one sweet looking shotgun. :thumbs:

I find it interesting that on the Wiki some states consider it an assault weapon because of the clip. How many states do this (as I know that CA is proly one of the most liberal)?

 

[hunteroc57]

Nice grab, you can't go wrong with the Saiga, fun to shoot and like you said super reliable. That drum in the video is pretty bad ass.

 

[Nocturnus]

I was looking at those. I myself would really love a Browning A5...

You could also get one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armsel_Striker

heh.

 

[dlow]

Buy all the extras and parts you need now because Saiga just declared bankruptcy!

Extras need to be US made anyways due to 922R, but I do plan to pick up some replacement parts soon. Hopefully another company will step up to support the gun if Saiga doesn't keep producing it. Also, I doubt Russia will truly let them go under. Right now, I just need to make sure to pick up a spare firing pin as this is about the only part that is known to wear out.

 

[360]

I got to doing some more thinking and searching on different topics related around this gun due to the fact that you said you were wanting to primarily use this as a home defense gun. A guy on another forum I'm on has one and planned on using it as his home defense gun but when talked to his deputy DA, the DA said that there is the possibility "prejudicial effect of using such an unconventional weapon as a Tromix Saiga-12."

"Basically, my deputy DA buddy opined that if by some misfortune of circumstance an overly zealous prosecutor decided to drag one's shooting before a grand jury (or, even worse, it went to trial), the peculiar kickassedness and appearance of the Saiga-12 might not help one's cause in the eyes of certain kinds of big-city jurors. It is somewhat analogous to how things could be twisted to look if one were to use handloads in self-defense, instead of commercially-produced ammo.

He admitted that he was unaware of any specific cases of justified homicide where someone's use of an unconventional weapon was an issue."--nalesq.

Something to think about. I know that in a home invasion situation the small tactical advantage of the Saiga or Remington 870 is minimal.

Don't mean to rain on you parade dlow. I still really like the gun :thumbs:

 

[dlow]

Thanks for the advice 360. I've heard similar statements before. I doubt that would be an issue n Georgia, but you never know, I guess. I mainly bought this because it was so damn cool and it would be great to shoot skeet with. Maybe I can use this as an excuse to get a pump next (I wouldn't mind owning one). For now, my primary defense is my pistol. The shotgun is more of a long term project.

 

[Devil Doc]

Thanks for the advice 360. I've heard similar statements before. I doubt that would be an issue n Georgia, but you never know, I guess. I mainly bought this because it was so damn cool and it would be great to shoot skeet with. Maybe I can use this as an excuse to get a pump next (I wouldn't mind owning one). For now, my primary defense is my pistol. The shotgun is more of a long term project.

As an experience clays shooter, I sincerely doubt it would be worth a damn at skeet or any other shotgun game involving clay pigeons. Besides, we clays shooters tend to be snobs with our 14,000 dollar,engraved o/u's and would probably laugh our asses off. :laugh:

Doc.

 

[Gawl]

I always caution people when they say their main home defense weapon is a pistol. If your using a pistol make sure your using something like glasser rounds as your primary load. My buddy used a pistol for home defense and needed to discharge his weapon. The slug passed through 3 walls and logged in his wooden fence outside. The shotgun is a much better home defense weapon as it won't penetrate as far and most people don't have the training to hit a target with a pistol when hopped up on adrenaline. Shotgun gives you a wider cone of fire.

 

[CigarStone]

As an owner of several shotguns which I use in a wide variety of ways (rabbit hunting, bird hunting, clay pigeons, etc.) my semi-auto is the least used one I own. Too bulky, too heavy, too high maintenance, etc.

A good over and under is 3" - 5" shorter (no action) thus quicker on target and less likely to get caught in brush. Second choice would be a pump for multi-round speed, and third choice would be a bolt action for handling heavy loads.

Although I could enjoy killing some pallets

Edited to add....I agree with Gawl about the "slug" having a mind of it's own but that can be overcome by training and a shotgun can be difficult to wield in a home defenses circumstance and possible a split second too late on target. Valid points on both sides......

 

[dlow]

Wow. Lots of great comments (and a bit of debate). Again, this is more of a fun project than anything else. I mainly thought it was a really interesting gun, which is why I purchased it and posted about it here. I'm not trying to pass this thing off as the best gun in the world or anything. The thing is made out of stamped sheet metal after all! But that's one of the reasons I like it. I think everyone has made good points that I should still get a compact, reliable shotgun for the home. If I find that this one doesn't fit that bill, I'll get a pump most likely. I find the pistol vs shotgun debate an interesting one and this isn't the first time I've ran into it, but a pistol is what I have and trust, so that's what I will use for now. I've been shooting mine for years now, so I'm very comfortable with it. I'm on two acres of land surrounded by trees, so collateral damage isn't much concern. It will be once I have kids though, so I'll be keeping that in mind concerning all my weapons.

Regarding snobs shooting skeet, I don't shoot with those guys , so that doesn't worry me. I don't plan on joining any tournaments or anything like that. It's just for fun in my brothers back yard or at my local range. Between cigars, the bike, and computers, I have enough things taking up my time. The last thing I need to do is to try and become a competitive skeet shooter. Plus I've priced the guns you guys use and I can't afford them.

 

[CigarStone]

Wow. Lots of great comments (and a bit of debate). Again, this is more of a fun project than anything else. I mainly thought it was a really interesting gun, which is why I purchased it and posted about it here. I'm not trying to pass this thing off as the best gun in the world or anything. The thing is made out of stamped sheet metal after all! But that's one of the reasons I like it. I think everyone has made good points that I should still get a compact, reliable shotgun for the home. If I find that this one doesn't fit that bill, I'll get a pump most likely. I find the pistol vs shotgun debate an interesting one and this isn't the first time I've ran into it, but a pistol is what I have and trust, so that's what I will use for now. I've been shooting mine for years now, so I'm very comfortable with it. I'm on two acres of land surrounded by trees, so collateral damage isn't much concern. It will be once I have kids though, so I'll be keeping that in mind concerning all my weapons.

Regarding snobs shooting skeet, I don't shoot with those guys , so that doesn't worry me. I don't plan on joining any tournaments or anything like that. It's just for fun in my brothers back yard or at my local range. Between cigars, the bike, and computers, I have enough things taking up my time. The last thing I need to do is to try and become a competitive skeet shooter. Plus I've priced the guns you guys use and I can't afford them.

Those guys are typically pretty weird anyway There's nothing better than watching their faces as a guy with a beat up $300 gun beats their scores

 

[Satchmo]

It sounds like you made a good choice considering your statements. It would be considered less than ideal for any serious target shooting, but it will still break birds if you point it in the right spot. Target guns are usually O/U or semis depending on preference.

For a serious home defense shotgun you may want something that would be considered more reliable. The reliablity factor is generally why pumps get the nod here.

For the fun factor, you have the perfect gun. A friend got one in .410 for wabbits. It looks kick ass, shoots decent, and is a lot of fun. It will be awesome for plinking and casual clay targets. I am not sure about reliablity, but if you maintain it and put some rounds through it you will see it ranks in this department after 500-1000 rounds.

Wow. Lots of great comments (and a bit of debate). Again, this is more of a fun project than anything else. I mainly thought it was a really interesting gun, which is why I purchased it and posted about it here. I'm not trying to pass this thing off as the best gun in the world or anything. The thing is made out of stamped sheet metal after all! But that's one of the reasons I like it. I think everyone has made good points that I should still get a compact, reliable shotgun for the home. If I find that this one doesn't fit that bill, I'll get a pump most likely. I find the pistol vs shotgun debate an interesting one and this isn't the first time I've ran into it, but a pistol is what I have and trust, so that's what I will use for now. I've been shooting mine for years now, so I'm very comfortable with it. I'm on two acres of land surrounded by trees, so collateral damage isn't much concern. It will be once I have kids though, so I'll be keeping that in mind concerning all my weapons.

Regarding snobs shooting skeet, I don't shoot with those guys , so that doesn't worry me. I don't plan on joining any tournaments or anything like that. It's just for fun in my brothers back yard or at my local range. Between cigars, the bike, and computers, I have enough things taking up my time. The last thing I need to do is to try and become a competitive skeet shooter. Plus I've priced the guns you guys use and I can't afford them.

 

[LouieD]

You certainly don't need a 15 grand shotgun for clays. My Berretta AL391 Gold Teknys Trap is a great gun for sporting clays, skeet, ect... and only cost me about $2K. You can shoot this gun all day without your shoulder hurting.

 

[Devil Doc]

You certainly don't need a 15 grand shotgun for clays. My Berretta AL391 Gold Teknys Trap is a great gun for sporting clays, skeet, ect... and only cost me about $2K. You can shoot this gun all day without your shoulder hurting.

Yea, but how many guys stand in line to hold your shotgun. Come on Louie, I was being facetious. I own a 391 Sporting that I use when I go slumming. :sign:

Doc.

 

[Satchmo]

I also like the $10k Krieghoffs and Perazzi's, they make my penis bigger! Too bad they don't add to my scores at all. The 391s are a great all around gun.

You certainly don't need a 15 grand shotgun for clays. My Berretta AL391 Gold Teknys Trap is a great gun for sporting clays, skeet, ect... and only cost me about $2K. You can shoot this gun all day without your shoulder hurting.

Yea, but how many guys stand in line to hold your shotgun. Come on Louie, I was being facetious. I own a 391 Sporting that I use when I go slumming. :sign:

Doc.

 

[Devil Doc]

You don't buy a Krieghoff or Perazzi to increase your scores, although the fitting that one gets with the purchase of a 10k to 15k shotgun might. You buy one cause you know you can put 100,000 rounds through it before it needs to go back to the gunsmith. Try that with any Beretta. You buy it for its balance. My SC3 sporting weighs 9.5lbs and handles like a 6lb field gun. My 391 handles like a sewer pipe. And of course, you buy it for pride of ownership. I find it interesting that people who haven't invested in these works of the gunsmiths art have similar opinions.

Doc