What happens to a cigar with age?

[Spanishcedar]

I was trying to satisfy my curiosity so I searched here and google and couldn't come up with much.

Does anyone know (or have any research on) what happens to a cigar with age, inside the cigar... chemically physically mentally?

Okay not really mentally but what happens?

If this has already been discussed and you know of the link please post it up.

If you have any information at all it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[Gonnagal]

I'm no expert, but basically stronger cigars mellow out. Allows for the cigar to ferminate longer, I think that's right. Some say it also makes the bunching of the tobacco loosen a little to help it smoke better. Now I'm no pro I know more seasoned fogs can tell it better.

 

[amateuraficionado]

I'm no expert, but basically stronger cigars mellow out. Allows for the cigar to ferminate longer, I think that's right. Some say it also makes the bunching of the tobacco loosen a little to help it smoke better. Now I'm no pro I know more seasoned fogs can tell it better.

There are many here who know more about the topic than me but I do know that once a cigar is rolled it no longer ferminates.... err, ferments. :sign:

I suspect one of the main things that occurs is that the oils from the different leaves used in the blend migrate to one another and also migrate to the binder and wrapper (which sometimes results in plume) I think this migration of oils yields more uniform flavor. As far as whatever else is going on..... ya got me.

edit to add: If I'm not mistaken tobacco only ferments when it's in bails. From what I've read the weight of the bail on itself actually causes the internal temperature to rise to 115'F I think. Once this happens, the tobacco is turned. This process is repeated for some period of time, generally several years. Once these bails are separated, I believe the fermentation process ends.

 

[Gavin]

Ferminate is my new favorite word. I can see the movie now: one sophisticated cigar-making robot is sent back in time to save an unborn smoker...The Ferminator...

 

[Spanishcedar]

This is the only lead I've rally gotten take-off from... pretty vague though.

• 3 weeks stabilizes the mechanical tensions and moisture of a cigar, making it smoke better, particularly if it was shipped ‘green’
• 3 months allows the oils to begin their natural dissipation so that the flavors of the blend ‘marry’
• 3 years (in a temperature/humidity controlled environment) allows some more complex chemical processes of true aging to take place, creating deep, rich and subtle layers of flavor
• Beyond 3 years – Carefully stored, cigars just keep getting better and better

and this...

As cigars age in the humidor, the natural oils in the tobacco secrete to the surface of the cigar. These oils manifest themselves as a light gray powder-like substance that will appear on the wrapper. This is a sign of a cigar that continues to age and benefit from the proper humidity and temperature that you are obviously using to store your cigars.

 

[Spanishcedar]

There are many here who know more about the topic than me but I do know that once a cigar is rolled it no longer ferminates.... err, ferments. :sign:

edit to add: If I'm not mistaken tobacco only ferments when it's in bails. From what I've read the weight of the bail on itself actually causes the internal temperature to rise to 115'F I think. Once this happens, the tobacco is turned. This process is repeated for some period of time, generally several years. Once these bails are separated, I believe the fermentation process ends.

You were right

Once cured, the tobacco is again sorted by size, texture, and now, colour and taken to a factory where the fermentation stage occurs. Tobacco leaves are placed on top of each other such that huge bales and stacks are created often 5’ - 6’ square. These are called burros. Because these burros are so large with so many leaves piled on top of each other, heat begins to build up in the center of the burro and the tobacco leaves undergo great chemical and physical changes. This is known as fermentation. As the heat builds up, ammonia, water, and plant sap is released and the starches in the leaves begin to turn into sugars. This fermentation process is very similar to what happens in your compost pile except that experienced workers insure that the leaves never begin to decompose. They do this by carefully monitoring the temperature in the middle of the burros and as heat builds up to approximately 90° - 100° F, the leaves in each burro are rotated from top to bottom and the burro is rebuilt. This process is repeated 8 — 12 times and each time the heat is allowed to build up until it reaches the desired temperature. Eventually the heat build up is less and less with each rotation and fermentation is over. This fermentation stage is also called "sweating the tobacco" as ammonia and water is literally sweated out of the leaves. Fermentation actually changes the characteristics of the leaves as the molecules within the tobacco are broken down. The release of ammonia and other nitrates helps to reduce the nicotine, tar and acid content in the tobacco. Fermentation, which for some tobacco is actually done in several stages, can take 6 — 12 weeks depending on the tobacco (longer if maduro leaf is desired). The tobacco leaves are now ready to be aged.
The tobacco is again sorted and by this time the leaves have been classified such that the manufacturer knows which leaves will be used for filler, binder or wrapper. The tobacco is then repacked into bales, marked and labeled and then put into factory warehouses to age. The tobacco will age for upwards of 1 — 3 years and in the case of tobacco designated for super premium and vintage cigars, up to 5 — 7 years. Ageing the tobacco helps to even out the remaining moisture within the tobacco and mature the leaves until they are ready to go into cigar production.

 

[CigarMan Andy]

A lot of good information there, but all factories don't use the same process. We use 1" stacks and have a worker that rotates the stacks. Also tobacco acts much like a body. After you cut off oxygen and food to a body and it dies, it starts to decompose. Tobacco does the same thing after it is harvested.. You do loose flavor and strength after time. If you ask Jorge Padron, he will tell you that his cigars are ready to smoke and not to age them. They were blended to taste the way they are when released. Carlito will tell you the same. I work for Arganes and Los Blanco (Plesencia) and we are the same way. You can age them if you like, but you won't be smoking what the blender worked so hard at.

Keep in mind, some cigars that have been rushed through the fermentation process will get an ammonia taste and aging wont really help that. If you get a cigar that is young, it will get a green taste and aging might help that. Be careful aging though. I had a OR Padron 1964 that was tasteless.

 

[jfields]

Keep in mind, some cigars that have been rushed through the fermentation process will get an ammonia taste and aging wont really help that.

Hey Andy! Good to see you.

I don't know if I agree with the above. I've had several cigars from new boxes that have had ammonia in the profile, with the majority of them being Cuban. Time definitely does help this in my experience.

 

[amateuraficionado]

A lot of good information there, but all factories don't use the same process. We use 1" stacks and have a worker that rotates the stacks. Also tobacco acts much like a body. After you cut off oxygen and food to a body and it dies, it starts to decompose. Tobacco does the same thing after it is harvested.. You do loose flavor and strength after time. If you ask Jorge Padron, he will tell you that his cigars are ready to smoke and not to age them. They were blended to taste the way they are when released. Carlito will tell you the same. I work for Arganes and Los Blanco (Plesencia) and we are the same way. You can age them if you like, but you won't be smoking what the blender worked so hard at.

Keep in mind, some cigars that have been rushed through the fermentation process will get an ammonia taste and aging wont really help that. If you get a cigar that is young, it will get a green taste and aging might help that. Be careful aging though. I had a OR Padron 1964 that was tasteless.

That's interesting that you only use 1" stacks Andy. Any reason why they're kept so small? Just curious because everything I've always read, including the info above, says that fermentation generally occurs in bails that are 5'-6'. I guess the 1" stacks require some artificial heat source?

Keep in mind, some cigars that have been rushed through the fermentation process will get an ammonia taste and aging wont really help that.

Hey Andy! Good to see you.

I don't know if I agree with the above. I've had several cigars from new boxes that have had ammonia in the profile, with the majority of them being Cuban. Time definitely does help this in my experience.

I agree John. It only makes sense that a cigar will rid itself of ammonia over time simply through evaporation.

 

[tone-ny]

It gets old! :whistling:

 

[jfields]

It gets old! :whistling:

Who are you?

 

[tone-ny]

Did I win?

 

[jfields]

Did I win?

Oh yeah! I remember that stranger.

 

[CigarMan Andy]

A lot of good information there, but all factories don't use the same process. We use 1" stacks and have a worker that rotates the stacks. Also tobacco acts much like a body. After you cut off oxygen and food to a body and it dies, it starts to decompose. Tobacco does the same thing after it is harvested.. You do loose flavor and strength after time. If you ask Jorge Padron, he will tell you that his cigars are ready to smoke and not to age them. They were blended to taste the way they are when released. Carlito will tell you the same. I work for Arganes and Los Blanco (Plesencia) and we are the same way. You can age them if you like, but you won't be smoking what the blender worked so hard at.

Keep in mind, some cigars that have been rushed through the fermentation process will get an ammonia taste and aging wont really help that. If you get a cigar that is young, it will get a green taste and aging might help that. Be careful aging though. I had a OR Padron 1964 that was tasteless.

That's interesting that you only use 1" stacks Andy. Any reason why they're kept so small? Just curious because everything I've always read, including the info above, says that fermentation generally occurs in bails that are 5'-6'. I guess the 1" stacks require some artificial heat source?

Keep in mind, some cigars that have been rushed through the fermentation process will get an ammonia taste and aging wont really help that.

Hey Andy! Good to see you.

I don't know if I agree with the above. I've had several cigars from new boxes that have had ammonia in the profile, with the majority of them being Cuban. Time definitely does help this in my experience.

I agree John. It only makes sense that a cigar will rid itself of ammonia over time simply through evaporation.

My bad 1ft, 1' stacks LMAO

I was tired when I wrote that. Gene and I had been all over both coasts in the last three weeks.

John. Good to see you here as well. Ammonia in the profile can be removed by aging, but if it is overwhelming ammonia, the damage has probably been done.

Did I win?

Anthony, Sorry we missed you in NY. PLEASE let me know if you are coming to the West coast.

 

[DePasta]

Mentally, cigars tend to forget where I put them as they get older.....

 

[JayBay]

The problem I have with all this I can't seem to get past the fact that I don't trust myself.

Example scenario: let's say I buy a box of cigars in 2007, and I open the box right away and fire one up. I enjoy the cigar and make notes. For whatever reason, I leave the box in the humidor for say - a year...or maybe even two. In a moment that seems like Christmas, I find the box of cigars in the bottom of one of my humis and exclaim, "Hey! I forgot about this - these are darned tasty!" So I grab another, fire it up, and proceed to wax poetic about how much they've improved with time.

Now - that scenario doesn't sound unreasonable, does it? Don't answer rhetorical questions - of course it doesn't sound unreasonable. But here's the catch...or list of "catch questions". What did I eat and drink for the day or even two days prior to smoking that first cigar that may have had a profound effect on how my taste buds reacted to that cigar the first time I smoked it? Was I fully hydrated? Because I know (at least for me) things can taste funny when I'm dehydrated. What was the condition of my sinuses in 2007. How has the sensitivity of my taste buds deteriorated since then? What aromas were in the air that might effect my perception of flavor?

Jay's unsolicited opinion: too many variables to state the effects of aging with certainty.

 

[srnadel]

I was told aging always mellows the cigars and all the different leaves meld together. Personally, I don't have the best palate and probably can't tell the difference between something aged 2 years or 4 years. I doubt they would even last that long. No pateince.

 

[Omskakas]

I've read that some cigars get stronger when they age. What happens to nicotine when tobacco ages?

Does age decrease the amount of nicotine in tobacco? Nicotine is an organic compound and some of them are destroyed either by itself or by oxygen.

Or does the amount increase? Because as base nicotine forms salts with acids and in salt form it's not so well absorbed. Cigarette industry uses ammonia to free nicotine from salt to base form. Does age do the same somehow?

 

[Chevo]

Good one...

Ferminate is my new favorite word. I can see the movie now: one sophisticated cigar-making robot is sent back in time to save an unborn smoker...The Ferminator...

 

[sspolv]

Woo! A chemical engineering degree may help. I'm going to take a shot in the dark on this one. This is all theory, so take it with a grain of salt.

As a cigar ages, it will indeed marry. Oils from all parts of the cigar should travel to the other parts based on concentrations. Mass transfer states that chemicals in an area of a high concentration will transfer to areas of low concentration. So any oils in the wrapper that aren't as present in the binder/filler will migrate that way.

The oils themselves are organic compounds that will undergo oxidation after extended periods of time and constant presence of oxygen. What oils these are to begin with and what they oxidize to may result in a change in flavor. I'm not as sure on this one because I don't know what oils are present in a cigar.

As for the nicotine, I don't know. It's not particularly reactive so I'm not entirely sure how it could get stronger, aside from a loss of mass from the cigar which results in a higher nicotine concentration due to a smaller volume.

In summation:

It gets old! :whistling: