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Who at CP Uses Cigars as an Investment?

garvey

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
281
In the December 24th, 2007 Forbes there is an article about Salvatore Parisi, who not only loves to smoke great cigars but also use them as an investment. For example, Parisi purchased 15 Cohiba Behikes @ $375 -- and has seen them appreciate to $750 each over the past year. Similarly, he boasts of a 25 year Dunhill Estupendo worth $1200 -- and an overall collection worth $2.5 million+ (60,000 sticks).

It made me wonder how large is the cigar investment community. I searched and found a handful of articles referencing the phenomenon -- and I wondered, how many BOTL here at CP purchase their cigars with investment on your mind?
 
Interesting article. I guess they could be used as an investment vehicle. To be held long term to reap enough rewards. Seems he doesn't smoke many cigars. I wonder who he will leave his collection to, since he has no heirs?
 
It's an interesting idea but I don't think I have that kind of restraint. If I had that many fine smokes around me it'd be hard to resist knowing there were backups! I'll stick to stocks and real estate.
 
In the December 24th, 2007 Forbes there is an article about Salvatore Parisi, who not only loves to smoke great cigars but also use them as an investment. For example, Parisi purchased 15 Cohiba Behikes @ $375 -- and has seen them appreciate to $750 each over the past year. Similarly, he boasts of a 25 year Dunhill Estupendo worth $1200 -- and an overall collection worth $2.5 million+ (60,000 sticks).

It made me wonder how large is the cigar investment community. I searched and found a handful of articles referencing the phenomenon -- and I wondered, how many BOTL here at CP purchase their cigars with investment on your mind?
That's about $41 a stick average, unless my math is bad.

Just like any collection, value is dictated by demand. I guess there is someone that is willing pay what he is asking for. The only problem is that these sticks will probably never get smoked!

Strange, as I was typing this I started thinking about my own cigars. I have always thought that I'm not a collector but I'm beginning to wonder if I'm fooling myself. If I did not buy another
stick, starting now, I have sufficient cigars to last me 7 years, smoking one a day. I could be labeled a collector...am I?

CP, this is all your fault ??? You keep tempting me with all your invaluable information :whistling:
 
That's about $41 a stick average, unless my math is bad.

Just like any collection, value is dictated by demand. I guess there is someone that is willing pay what he is asking for. The only problem is that these sticks will probably never get smoked!

The more I read about Parisi, the more he sounds like a speculator in almost any other field. So he has 60,000 cigars -- many that he purchased in bulk while visiting the Havana cigar factories. He puts them back, ages them, and in time will see some appreciation.

But the example that gets me is the shriveled pre-Castro cigars he owns. Seriously, as described they sound unsmokeable -- but they represent an era of cigar making gone by, thus have exceptional value to someone who appreciates the craft.

The danger for the average speculator seems to be similar to baseball cards in the late 1980s/early 1990s. People jumped in and bought boxes and boxes of cards waiting for them to appreciate, never thinking about the production end of the equation. The makers (Topps, Donruss, Fleer, UP) started pimping them out and the bottom fell out -- thus few cards of that era are really worth $$$ -- unless of course they were "special" limited production (like updates).

I'm really new to cigars, but based on my very newbie observations, it seems cigar manufacturers are leveraging this specialty market for similar reasons. The traditional cigar market (meaning standard production lines) aren't "sexy" enough for some consumers so the "limited" market is created to leverage higher price points -- even when the cigar itself may not be all that "special" other than the "image" created by a low production run and sexy packaging.

So while some folks are running out and spending $200 - $300 for 10 or 12 cigars, others are finding greater value in traditionally solid brands -- and over the long run setting themselves up for stronger value appreciation over time. Just like baseball cards. I had friends pumping hundreds of dollars into new cards back in the mid/late 70s, and then insert cards in the 90s -- and I was pumping $$ into the older proven stars (Mantle, Banks, Aaron, etc...).

Not sure if the historical parallel will play out -- like I said, I'm just feeling my way around cigars to find out what I like. But the investment articles are a fun "intellectual" exercise....

Cheers,
Darryl
 
In the December 24th, 2007 Forbes there is an article about Salvatore Parisi, who not only loves to smoke great cigars but also use them as an investment. For example, Parisi purchased 15 Cohiba Behikes @ $375 -- and has seen them appreciate to $750 each over the past year. Similarly, he boasts of a 25 year Dunhill Estupendo worth $1200 -- and an overall collection worth $2.5 million+ (60,000 sticks).

It made me wonder how large is the cigar investment community. I searched and found a handful of articles referencing the phenomenon -- and I wondered, how many BOTL here at CP purchase their cigars with investment on your mind?

It helps the investment if you inflate the price I guess. Market price for the Estupendos is probably $3,000-4,000 tops for box of 10($3-400 a cigar). I also don't know how serious I would take someone who bought 15 Behikes instead of the whole humidor....not nearly as valuable single as with the humidor. Sounds like a nice enough guy from the interview, but also sounds like he is full of a lot of hot air as well.

Oh, and I have never bought cigars for an investment....all my cigars are bought with the intention of being smoked. If you want to collect for an investment, buy art.
 
Oh, and I have never bought cigars for an investment....all my cigars are bought with the intention of being smoked. If you want to collect for an investment, buy art.

LOL! Very true Mike. However, art is also subjective. Demand dictates the price. We have never bought art with an investment in mind.

Brian
 
Cigars seem like a particularly vulnerable (physically) investment to me....
 
Investing in cigars is something that one can not take lightly. If you are indeed going to invest for future financial gain, you must be ready to shell out for not only proper storage techniques, but also for proof of these techniques over the time of your investment. Your best bet is to visit a highly acknowledged brick and mortar in the UK and rent a storage space. Than, add to it and don't take out until you're ready to sell. Your best bet is to just give them a credit card and tell them to stock it on your ordering. Doing this takes your due diligence to visit the storage space regularly and be in constant contact with said storage space. Buying for future gain also takes some speculation, though it is pretty easy to determine what is going to be valuable as far as Havana cigars. Extremely limited humidors, intact are goingt o be your best bet. Then, well known brands, such as Cohiba and Montecristo are going to be your next best bet. These brands have been popular and will continue to be popular, even if the market is flooded with them now. Provenance is going to be just as important and storage, in most cases, so save each and every receipt. You're probably going to have to visit Havana too. You'll need contacts inside Cuba to help you determine what will actually be limited and what will be coming up. Visiting the yearly festivales will allow you to purchase the limited stuff before it gets to the stores and the prices are inflated. This will also get you access to special things that may never be released officially to the public and allow you to bid on one of a kind things offered in the auctions. The farther the cigars are from you, the better. Keep them out of reach, but in a safe place with people who know how to store them. These people will be your lifeline when it comes time to start selling things for a profit. A good humidor minder will let you know when stuff is ready to be sold for profit.

Personally I'd say never invest in non-Cuban brands except for the very rare full humidor stuff. Examples would be the Padron Anniversario full humidors and the special Prometheus humidors made for Fuente. The odd shaped Fuente stuff is unique, but you're never going to know full production numbers and will never be able to prove value. Anything that is numbered, will always gain in value.

Like any investment, you'll need to know when to sell and when not to. Your connections with other collectors will be more important than you connections with you stockbroker, if you decide to use tobacco as an investment.
 
Interesting concept!

I was never a coin or stamp collector but I found a coin collection buried in the attic of a house I bought 15 years ago. After trying to reach the family of the previous owners, and having no luck, I started trying to determine the value. I found that with coins and stamps, etc. it's easy to find a value but impossible to find someone to pay you what books and collectors tell you it's worth. So what is it really worth?

At least with cigars there is always someone anxious to give you what it's worth :thumbs:
 
As for art, you can't buy art, as an investment, based on what you like. You must buy based on movements within the art community. You will need to be very connected to New York and Chicago galleries and make connections with artists. I can't tell you how much I could be making on art if I would have bought when I was in art school. I had numerous chances to buy works by Haring, Wojnarowicz and other New York artists. I have a few things right now that I need to determine value on. Mostly etchings I did with artists who were visiting the university, like Buzz Spector and Rupert Garcia, both who are quite accomplished. I'd sell both in a second too, as they are nothing that I would display in my home, though I did hang the Garcia print for a while in a dark corner. LOL!
 
No thanks. I'll stick to smoking and sharing.

Note: Parisi sounds like a complete asshat. I'd gladly relieve him of a couple bags full of investment.
 
So what is it really worth?

The real worth is what the market will bear(not nessicarily the real value!).
It's usually a 'collector' that will pay the most.

At times, with out the proper contacts, it maybe be prudent to put the items in a reputible 'Auction' (with proper advertising)....and go from there.

"Book' values are just a gauge. A lot of time the numbers are based on past/recent auctions or known sales.
 
Great information Matt :thumbs: . I've dabbled in collecting of wine, cigars, art, etc., etc., it just seems that my OCD gets me in these situations. I'd love to see the sketches you have Matt.

:cool:
 
In the December 24th, 2007 Forbes there is an article about Salvatore Parisi, who not only loves to smoke great cigars but also use them as an investment. For example, Parisi purchased 15 Cohiba Behikes @ $375 -- and has seen them appreciate to $750 each over the past year. Similarly, he boasts of a 25 year Dunhill Estupendo worth $1200 -- and an overall collection worth $2.5 million+ (60,000 sticks).

No way the Dunhill Estupendo is worth $1,200. His cigars are worth nothing until someone actually pays for them.

Anyway, I'm sure some people can make some money aging and selling cigars... but it seems like a very poor investment to me, compared to other vehicles that are out there.
 
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