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After smoking my first few Cubans...

Izzy, would you consider putting those Cohibas and Partagas down for a few months and start smoking as many different NCs you can get your hands on, then return to your favored forbidden fruit. I am positive you will find an NC that is comparable experience wise, although maybe not economically.

A few I can recommend starting off with...

LFD Oscural Naturals
LFD Mysterio (not just eye candy)
LG
AVO (especially the Domaine Line, I like the #20 model)
Padron (I favor a 1926 over a Cohiba any day, although I wouldn't turn down either)
Ashton (VSG sure are tasty)
Joya de Nicaragua
DPG Blue/Black
and of course Tatuaje, especially the Cojonus.
 
...just to be clear, I absolutely love a number of cigars brands from Cuba (Ramon Allones, Cohiba, and other brands are among my favorite cigars)... but the rosy colored glasses that causes some to consider anything and everything Cuba to be superfantasticublous... not so much.
 
moki said:
Izzypizzy said:
I feel like never smoking anything but.

Been smoking Cohiba Siglo IV's, and PSD4's, they're simply the best cigars I've ever smoked, smoothness like no other.. And so sweet..

(Smoking a psd4 as I post this!)

How many of you feel the same way?
Click to expand...

After eating my first Thai meal, I've been eating nothing but Pad Thai, Chicken Chuche, Lemongrass Beef, etc. It's simply the best food in the world, with smoothness and sweetness like no other.

(Eating some Pad Thai as I post this!)

How many of you feel the same way?
Click to expand...

Love Thai food! Followed by Indian! Then Sushi. Then Mexican. Then Italian.
 
Izzy,

No reason to get bent or offended by what Moki said. That's pretty much his standard mantra with respect to "there is good and poor to be found wherever you may look" and "let your taste, and not your awareness of national origin be the prima facie indicator of quality or worthiness."

Just keep an open mind with respect to your expectations and trying things and you'll do fine.

Wilkey
 
Sheesh, Wilkey...there you go imparting logic again...you're no fun. :)
 
moki said:
I promise you that you will not like all cigars that come from Cuba.
Click to expand...

That sums it up right there. Every cigar producing country (well except maybe the Philippines :p ) has at least one or two great cigars and a ton of horrible ones. Even Cuba.

Another reason I've gone further and further away from Cuban cigars is the fact that over the years all the brands has begun to taste more and more alike. And that gets boring fast.

And finally, since October 2004 Cuban cigars are now illegal to smoke anywhere in the world by an American citizen. Before that it was OK to smoke them, just not to buy them (I always let my GERMAN wife buy mine for me ;) ).

It never was a forbidden fruit thing for me, but my general paranoia regarding our current police state doesn't allow me to enjoy smoking Cuban cigars as much as I used to. :angry:
 
Well, I have to echo both badhangover, Moki and Wilkey on this one.

The allure of forbidden fruit has long since passed for me. There are times I want to smoke only NC, then hunger for my favorite habanos. The truth is that I have way more cigars than I will EVER smoke, and so I have some luxury in choice. Some of my favorite NC are Don Carlos #3, #4, Small format VSG, PAM, PAN, and of course Tatuaje.

While I dread the idea of companies like fuente and padron getting into cuba after the embargo is lifted and "Blending" NC and Cuban tobacco together, the idea of these companies using their expertise to improve the construction of cuban cigars is enticing.

Excellent discussion...
 
tandblov said:
While I dread the idea of companies like fuente and padron getting into cuba after the embargo is lifted and "Blending" NC and Cuban tobacco together, the idea of these companies using their expertise to improve the construction of cuban cigars is enticing.
Click to expand...
I am of the same mind as far as blending goes.

I think that eventually, a compelling Cuban-nonCuban blend will come about but considering the pipeline for these sorts of things, I couldn't really see it happening before 5 years PE (Post Embargo) at the absolute earliest. And that is completely disregarding the other non-cigarmaking related organizational and commercial issues. What is conceivable early on is second and third tier producers buying Cuban leaf and futzing blends with x% Havana in it and targeting the unsuspecting or uncritical U.S. customer.

The quality resolution issue may not be quite as clear cut as many may think. Nearly 50 years under a totalitarian, communist government is a tough legacy to overturn as far as work ethic and motivation.

Wilkey
 
I personally do not dread it, as long as they leave the traditional blends alone. Due to the fact that I stated above that all the Cuban cigars are starting to taste the same.
 
moki said:
Izzypizzy said:
I feel like never smoking anything but.

Been smoking Cohiba Siglo IV's, and PSD4's, they're simply the best cigars I've ever smoked, smoothness like no other.. And so sweet..

(Smoking a psd4 as I post this!)

How many of you feel the same way?
Click to expand...

After eating my first Thai meal, I've been eating nothing but Pad Thai, Chicken Chuche, Lemongrass Beef, etc. It's simply the best food in the world, with smoothness and sweetness like no other.

(Eating some Pad Thai as I post this!)

How many of you feel the same way?
Click to expand...


Oh I agree 100 % Moki...But a true Thai food lover would not dare turn their nose (or stomach up) at the chance to eat the Thai forbidden fruit .....The Mighty Durango.....

I also must add.
'Izzypizzy' I could send you a whole bunch of ISOM's that would turn you off smoking any cigars for a long time,Mate.
 
Forbiden fruit... hmm... I think it might be it in some way. Men usually like more something what is illicit, the forbiden fruit tastes better. But are we nonUS citizens a representative group? I think that 3 or 4 people who claim to like non cubans better are not enough. Maybe we are just 4 exceptions, and 80% of European smokers like Cubas much more, or maybe thats just because we are CP members and we know how many great non isoms we can get? I can say that if I were not here I probably would be Cuban smoker as we dont have to many good NC smokes here, just some avarage cigars ofcourse with exceptions.


Ginseng said:
Marketing and packaging cost contributions must be significantly different between the two. For example, production Habanos come in plain cedar SLB/cabs or dressed boxes while NCs seem to be coming in fancier and fancier packaging.
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Ha! Dont know how it looks in other European countries but in Poland we have no more cedar boxes. Almost all Habanos cigars are now in carton boxes, usually 5ers and then put into bigger carton box so You have 25. Ive been talking with a lady in one shop, and she told me that lots of old school cigar smokeds are really mad about this, they hate this new age cigars packaging style. Sometimes shops even buys empty boxes anywhere to put 20 cigars in it and than sell it. So if we talk about Habanos visible marketing we talk about nice graphics, and it just nothing when we compare it to some NC boxes which are just an awesome looking things.
 
Michal said:
Forbiden fruit... hmm... I think it might be it in some way. Men usually like more something what is illicit, the forbiden fruit tastes better. But are we nonUS citizens a representative group? I think that 3 or 4 people who claim to like non cubans better are not enough. Maybe we are just 4 exceptions, and 80% of European smokers like Cubas much more, or maybe thats just because we are CP members and we know how many great non isoms we can get? I can say that if I were not here I probably would be Cuban smoker as we dont have to many good NC smokes here, just some avarage cigars ofcourse with exceptions.
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You raise another good point, sir. You and the other non US residents are not representative of non US cigar smokers as a whole. I think it is more likely that you know that you like to smoke N/C cigars and have found an appropriate cigar board for your tastes. This cigar board is more relevant to the N/C smoker than to the Habano smoker. Other cigar boards, that primarily discuss Habanos, have several more non US resident members, that espouse smoking Habanos only. I do not consider them representative of the international cigar enthusiast community either.

But I could not care less what cigars you enjoy smoking. Or what cigars I enjoy smoking. I only care that we each enjoy smoking cigars and that we share our experiences with each other. That is why I participate on cigar boards.
 
badhangover said:
You raise another good point, sir. You and the other non US residents are not representative of non US cigar smokers as a whole. I think it is more likely that you know that you like to smoke N/C cigars and have found an appropriate cigar board for your tastes. This cigar board is more relevant to the N/C smoker than to the Habano smoker. Other cigar boards, that primarily discuss Habanos, have several more non US resident members, that espouse smoking Habanos only. I do not consider them representative of the international cigar enthusiast community either.
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Access to premium, quality cigars not made in Cuba is very rare outside of the USA. The majority of the cigar makers are Cuban exiles who set up shop specifically to sell to the American market (which is the world's largest single market for cigars). Any markets outside of the USA are serviced largely as an afterthought, to maintain international trademarks.

So I am not surprised at all that many people outside of the USA have a preference for cigars that are not only known to them, but also easily available. Also interestingly enough, in France, and the Netherlands, the majority of cigars sold are not Cuban cigars at all, but rather local varietals.
 
It's not that I don't agree with Moki, and most of your point of views. It was just the way it was presented to me.

I've been reading these forums for a long time before I even registered here, and I've found a ton of very helpful information.. Everything from how to season my new humidor, to buying heartfelt beads, and also what cigars I should be looking into smoking. I've always been more of a reader than a poster, and on the night I posted this, I just happened to be celebrating a good day, and smoking one of the very few cubans I have in my humidor.

I did not intend to start a debate. I just recently purchased the fast and the furious sampler from holts, in no way am I seriously considering giving up the fabulousness that is fuente, padron, pepin and the like.

Moki, I think you're the kind of guy that can be very harsh/abrupt, but once someone gets a chance to know you, they'd respect your opinion greatly.

Just ease up a bit on us noobs eh?
 
Izzypizzy,

You make a good case for your thread. You were posting of your enthusiasm and wanted to share that feeling with others. Unfortunately, and please don't take offense to this, but your enthusiasm had the slight appearance of silly cockiness. Perhaps cockiness isn't the right word, but I'm too lazy to put on my thinking cap or grab a thesaurus. It's akin to a karate student learning a punch or kick technique and all of a sudden running around the dojo (is that what they're called?) and exclaiming how great karate is. The point is, most of us are already regular cigar smokers. We know what we like, and it's not terribly difficult to discern who doesn't know yet from their own experiences what they like and don't like.

New members are invigorating to any cigar board. They refresh the livelihood of them. But hundreds and thousands of "cello on or off?" type threads grow wearisome over time. In time, you may notice that some "older heads" drop from sight. They likely sought the solace of "veteran" membered cigar boards or even private boards. Or they may have simply stopped posting altogether.

Give the older guys a break, as they should cut you some slack as well.

The best advice is to not interject any type of humor into your posts until you are somewhat accepted by the community at large. That's not really so different from "real life", no?
 
Take it easy.. sit back... relax.. smoke a nice cigar.. (I don't care if it's cooban or not) and we will try to "tip-toe through your tulip bed"










NAAA F$#K that..
 
Ginseng said:
tandblov said:
While I dread the idea of companies like fuente and padron getting into cuba after the embargo is lifted and "Blending" NC and Cuban tobacco together, the idea of these companies using their expertise to improve the construction of cuban cigars is enticing.
Click to expand...
I am of the same mind as far as blending goes.

I think that eventually, a compelling Cuban-nonCuban blend will come about but considering the pipeline for these sorts of things, I couldn't really see it happening before 5 years PE (Post Embargo) at the absolute earliest. And that is completely disregarding the other non-cigarmaking related organizational and commercial issues. What is conceivable early on is second and third tier producers buying Cuban leaf and futzing blends with x% Havana in it and targeting the unsuspecting or uncritical U.S. customer.
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that this is exactly what used to happen. Many Cubans fled Cuba during the Spanish-American war (which for them was a revolt against Spain), and settled in Key West due to geography. Key West was actually a huge cigar making force, with tobacco imported from Cuba, and rolled by expats in factories there.

That's actually exactly what happened in the case of one fellow named Arturo Fuente; he started out rolling cigars in a small Key West factory, using tobacco imported from Cuba. The same thing occurred in Ybor City.

The idea of buying tobacco in bulk from various sources and blending it together is very familiar to blenders... even in Cuba, the same thing occurs, tobacco is sought out on farms, acquired, and rolled into cigars.

The former Cubans who make up much of the cigar industry are very leery about getting involved with Cuba again. They had their property seized by the state, fled in exile, etc. I've been told that IF a steady supply of tobacco was available, maybe 5 years after the embargo ends to see how things shake out, some well known cigar manufacturers would consider purchasing it if they found quality tobacco and a steady supply.

They don't view it as anything other than the commodity that it is, no special consideration is given outside of the obvious lemming marketing opportunities :)
 
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