Any roofing guys out there?

[CigarStone]

I need some guidance regarding an issue I am having at my cabin. As I said this requires some out of the box thinking.

Here is the scenario:

My cabin is used frequently but not enough to justify heating it all the time so it gets winterized every time I leave in cold weather, why does this matter?......Normal ice dams don't apply here.

My ceilings are vaulted and there is not enough insulation to prevent thawing when I heat the cabin so after spending a few days there in cold weather the snow on the roof has begun to melt, fills my gutters and downspouts with ice, they subsequently overflow and ice forms all around the downspout area which includes my electric meter and the lock box for the keys....had to chip it away to get back in the cabin after hunting all day!

My only thoughts are to install heat cable in the gutters and downspouts to keep the water moving until it clears without refreezing in them. I will be installing ice and water membrane in the spring to help prevent water back up.

I have asked a couple people I trust and have gotten varying answers; my guess is that some people are going by what they see in a “normal” environment where the house is occupied year round……that doesn’t apply here. We have to think about what actually happens at the cabin instead of applying the standard solution for an occupied house. Other than the effects of the sun, which can happen any time, the only time thawing and refreezing will occur at the cabin is while I am heating the cabin and for a day or so after I leave until the cabin cools back down. After that, do I want a heat cable turned on for weeks at a time laying in an empty gutter?.....is there any reason other than cost that it would matter? Would a timer circuit work?

1. Will heat cables work in this scenario?
2. If thermostatically controlled, will they be on permanently until the outside weather warms up?
3. Do I need to zig-zag heat cable on the lower part of the roof lines?
4. Do I line the gutters and downspouts only?
5. Do I line the valleys?

A couple things to consider:
1. I am not installing better insulation
2. I am not reroofing the cabin.
3. It's a huntin camp

Oh, I failed to mention that in the spring I am removing the monstrosity you see in front of the kitchen door (well pit) and building a small (8x10) mud-room (with a gable roof) over the kicthen door.

Anyone needing to see the situation first hand is welcome to come HERF for a weekend :thumbs:

Edited to add the below pic....the downspout is between the sliding glass door and the kitchen door.

 

[Keystone_Raider]

What about removing the gutters and downspouts?

Problem solved!

 

[grateful1]

Take off the gutter!

 

[CigarStone]

What about removing the gutters and downspouts?

Problem solved!

Take off the gutter!

Believe it or not we actually discussed that but it would lead to a huge ice build up on the deck to the point where the doors wouldn't open.

 

[Devil Doc]

Bituthane the entire roof before shingling. If you don't know what that is, it's a rubber sealant that's applied like felt, Normally 10 ft. from the eaves up. It's not expensive, and not too difficult to lay down providing the winds not blowing. I did this on my house and I simply don't worry about Ice dams. If you do the whole roof, you could have the equivalent of the Hoover dam up there and it won't matter.

Doc.

 

[Keystone_Raider]

Maybe remove the radio?

 

[MoeCizlak]

Are your gutters becoming full because your downspouts are clogging with ice? If so, the hotwire in the downspouts should work. If not, perhaps the gutters don't have enough fall in them to get the water out before it freezes. I hung gutter for a couple of summers between college. Maybe upgrading your downspouts from 2" to 3" would let it flow better? I don't know if taking the gutters off would be the answer as it looks like a couple of doors would be affected by water freezing on your deck. In your winterizing process, make sure your gutters and downspouts are free of leaves so that flow can happen unimpeded. Just a couple of things off the top of my head. Good luck Jeff.

 

[CigarStone]

Are your gutters becoming full because your downspouts are clogging with ice? If so, the hotwire in the downspouts should work. If not, perhaps the gutters don't have enough fall in them to get the water out before it freezes. I hung gutter for a couple of summers between college. Maybe upgrading your downspouts from 2" to 3" would let it flow better? I don't know if taking the gutters off would be the answer as it looks like a couple of doors would be affected by water freezing on your deck. In your winterizing process, make sure your gutters and downspouts are free of leaves so that flow can happen unimpeded. Just a couple of things off the top of my head. Good luck Jeff.

Thanks Clint! The idea of increasing the slope certainly could help and can't hurt. I am with you that the heat cable laying in the gutters and downspouts should do it.

The gutters are cleaned in the late fall and that's about all that can be done on that front. Besides, the winterizing process is always a bitch as it is, being hung over and all!

 

[BigMacFU]

Actually, removing the gutters isn't a bad idea. Only reason for them is to redirect the rain to a few central spots. Seeing as it's a hunting cabin, who cares if you get rain on you. Or ice in front of your doors, just be careful walking in.

Now if you don't want to do that, the heat cable isn't a bad idea, but only necessary in your gutters and downspouts. I wouldn't thermostat them, but just use an outdoor timer box, maybe an on 6 hours, off 2, on 6, off 2, on 6, off 2. Then again, if supercold, just run it continuously.

Of course, you could just relocate the lock box and then it's only the cost of the screws.

 

[CigarStone]

Bituthane the entire roof before shingling. If you don't know what that is, it's a rubber sealant that's applied like felt, Normally 10 ft. from the eaves up. It's not expensive, and not too difficult to lay down providing the winds not blowing. I did this on my house and I simply don't worry about Ice dams. If you do the whole roof, you could have the equivalent of the Hoover dam up there and it won't matter.

Doc.

Doc, so you're suggesting reroofing the cabin?

 

[jfields]

Click Here!

 

[Devil Doc]

Bituthane the entire roof before shingling. If you don't know what that is, it's a rubber sealant that's applied like felt, Normally 10 ft. from the eaves up. It's not expensive, and not too difficult to lay down providing the winds not blowing. I did this on my house and I simply don't worry about Ice dams. If you do the whole roof, you could have the equivalent of the Hoover dam up there and it won't matter.

Doc.

Doc, so you're suggesting reroofing the cabin?

Unfortunately, yes. It's the only permanent solution. Everything else is jerry riggin'

Doc.

 

[CigarStone]

Click Here!

Thanks John, that could be the ticket!.....The cable is kinda expensive but I will definitely check in to it further!

When I saw you had replied, I expected something a bit more comical

Bituthane the entire roof before shingling. If you don't know what that is, it's a rubber sealant that's applied like felt, Normally 10 ft. from the eaves up. It's not expensive, and not too difficult to lay down providing the winds not blowing. I did this on my house and I simply don't worry about Ice dams. If you do the whole roof, you could have the equivalent of the Hoover dam up there and it won't matter.

Doc.

Doc, so you're suggesting reroofing the cabin?

Unfortunately, yes. It's the only permanent solution. Everything else is jerry riggin'

Doc.

You hit the nail on the head with that one Doc, the cabin is one huge jerry rig But I do intend to install the ice and water membrane three feet up at the suggestion of a roofing friend and when it's time for a new roof it will get the entire treatment!

 

[BigMacFU]

Bituthane the entire roof before shingling. If you don't know what that is, it's a rubber sealant that's applied like felt, Normally 10 ft. from the eaves up. It's not expensive, and not too difficult to lay down providing the winds not blowing. I did this on my house and I simply don't worry about Ice dams. If you do the whole roof, you could have the equivalent of the Hoover dam up there and it won't matter.

Doc.

Doc, so you're suggesting reroofing the cabin?

Ice and watershield is great stuff, but the purpose is preventing water from getting inside. It's not going to stop gutters from freezing or overrunning, it'll just prevent the backup from causing leaks inside. If you're having problems with leaks though: like you get to the cabin midwinter, there's a foot of snow on the roof, you turn on the heat, snow closest to the roof surface starts to melt, but is trapped by snow on top of it, so leaks, then it will definitely improve the life of the roof, especially the plywood boards underneath the shingles. But yeah, that'd be a total reroofing. A day project from the looks of the size of the roof if you got two friends and a couple roofing shovels, hammers and supplies.

 

[grateful1]

Water in front of the door is simple....redirect it on the roof.

More complicated...put an awning over the door.

 

[bfreebern]

Changing the slope of the gutter and moving the downspout to the other side of the door, might be an option.

 

[CigarStone]

Water in front of the door is simple....redirect it on the roof.

More complicated...put an awning over the door.

Changing the slope of the gutter and moving the downspout to the other side of the door, might be an option.

Okay, I'm busted! :blush: I failed to mention that in the spring I am removing the monstrosity you see in front of the kitchen door (well pit) and building a small (8x10) mud-room (with a gable roof) over the kicthen door.

So, now the left side of that gable roof will be directly over the doorway and deck, thus, I must capture and control that water.

Carry on

Maybe remove the radio?

Actually Jim, if I left the radio there and left it on, it could solve the entire problem!

 

[Wurm]

I think your cabin is bigger than my house

 

[AngryFishH]

When all else fails use the right tool for the job.

From that distance you can GENTLY heat the gutter and any other ice buildup.


Fish

 

[{tpc}]

Leave the heat on all winter?

Being serious though...on my parents cabin, the heat is on between 55-60 in the winter, and we never have much trouble...however the roof and doorways are in different places than yours so that may be part of it. Other than that, heat cable in the gutter sounds like it will work, however when you leave I wonder how much water will freeze back up in the gutter, and how long it would take to thaw it out when you return?

Another fix you could do that might help somewhat is to get one of those roof snow scrapers....its like a big flat piece of metal on the end of a really long pole. Scrape as much snow off the end edges of the roof when you arrive, and shovel it away from the doorways after you are done. Probably the least expensive of options. However, when doing so you need to take special care in that you don't want to destroy your shingling when scraping it. Just takes some pratice and a bit of a gentle touch. But your roof seems pretty accessible to something like that from the pics.

I had to do this on my old house, where the overhangs in the back of the house didn't see a whole lot of heat. The thing you described as happening in this case happened there as well, even though the house was used all year long. The problem I had was the water would run down the brick and find little ways into the house in some cases or just run down between the cement and the house. Then it would warm up and I would see water trickling down the walls in my basement. Obviously some repair was needed on that place, but if I was smart about how I cleared the snow and the edges of the roof, I never had any issues.